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fandomsecrets2013-05-05 03:31 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-05-05 03:31 pm
[ SECRET POST #2315 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2315 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 081 secrets from Secret Submission Post #331.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-05 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)Basically I don't know what my sexuality is, and I'm feeling really confused. I also feel pretty pathetic because I'm in my mid/late 20s and I feel like I should've had this all figured out a loooong time ago.
So, info:
- Female
- My first boyfriend was at 18. I had zero interest in sex or relationships but my friends and family kept harrassing me getting a boyfriend so I finally decided they were right and started dating someone. I wasn't interested in or compatible with him AT ALL, but everyone thought it was great, although I was miserable. I didn't really want to have sex with him but I went along with it (it was okay, not traumatizing or bad or anything, just...not my thing) because hey! I had a boyfriend! I knew it was something you had to do to be in a relationship, and my friends and family were finally taking me seriously for the first time. I was incredibly relieved when he broke up with me.
- After that, I had a couple guys that expressed interest in me, and I was vaguely interestesd in them, went out with one of them a couple times, but it didn't go anywhere.
- Started getting closer to a guy friend and developed a crush on him. He told me he was interested in me, we had a long talk in which we were somewhat worried about ruining our friendship (he was one of my best friends at that point) but decided to give it a try anyway. Things were alright for awhile but he had just broken up with his high school girlfriend and I was still trying to figure out what I wanted, so things ended and we didn't talk for awhile.
- Time passed, during which I discovered asexuality and thought 'aha!' Things finally seemed to make sense, I put sex and relationships out of my head, and was happy for the first time since puberty, basically. (Friends and family gave me crap about not dating anyone, but for the most part I was able to ignore it.)
- Guy friend contacted me out of nowhere and wanted to pick back up where we'd left off. He was finally over HS GF and missed me, he said. I explained asexuality to him and told him I just wanted to be friends since I knew it wasn't fair to be in a relationship with him and expect him to go without sex. He said it didn't really matter to him that much and he just wanted to be with me, so I decided to give things another chance. (I realize this is probably making me sound incredibly naive and dumb, but I believed him because we never had sex the first time around, it never even came up--that didn't stop me from worrying constantly that it was going to and I wouldn't know how to handle it when it did--but it didn't, so I assumed he was telling the truth because I figured if it WAS important to him it would've at least come up.) Again, things were pretty good for awhile, then he started acting weird and avoiding me, and I was FINALLY able to get it out of him that he'd slept with his ex and she was pregnant. I was pissed and hurt, though I felt like I didn't have the right to be because ours wasn't a real relationship anyway. I still feel kind of bad about it every now and then and think that if only I'd wanted to have sex with him, it wouldn't have happened but...there's nothing I can do about it now so whatever. Anyway, at that point I ended things for good and when he tried to contact me again a few months later I ignored him
- I was single for a long time after the thing with my guy friend finally ended for good, and then a couple years later I got a new female coworker. She was a lesbian, we became friends, and I developed a bit of a crush on her. This was the first time I'd had romantic feelings for a girl, and though I tried to just go with I couldn't help but angst about it a bit. After we'd been friends for awhile she confided to me that although she really liked girls and wanted to be with one, she didn't like sex. Ah! I thought, this is perfect. But she felt really bad about it and like there was something wrong with her. I explained that asexuality was a thing and it was okay. The topic didn't come up again, but we hung out more outside of work, got closer, and after awhile she admitted she had feelings for me. Which scared the shit out of me, so I kind of brushed it off (which I feel awful about in retrospect) but we continued being friends, and actually got even closer after that. I was trying to figure things out, we got closer still, I met her parents, and I felt like we were building up to something when she announced that she was going out with a guy. 'I thought I was a lesbian,' she said, 'but I guess I'm not, isn't it crazy?' Her parents were really conservative and religious and were constantly telling her that they couldn't wait until she was out of her lesbian 'phase' and settled down with a nice guy, so I had pretty much no doubt that she just finally gave in. Their relationship moved insanely fast (moved in together after a week, were talking about marriage and babies after three), and her personality did a 180 after she started dating him. Not long after that she quit her job, and I haven't seen her since (though I found out afterward that the guy she was with 'used to be' gay and they'd 'cured' each other and their families were just so thrilled...yeah).
That was a couple years ago and I haven't been interested in anyone since, and haven't really put much thought into dating or relationships, but most of my friends are married and starting to have kids (or at the very least are in serious relationships) and are starting up again about how I need to find a boyfriend.
I just feel so confused. The only thing I'm sure about is that I'm not into sex. I went with asexual for awhile but that feels kind of useless as a label. I mean, it says what I don't want, but nothing about what I do.
Then for awhile I sort of tenatively ID'd as bi, but that makes me feel like sort of a fraud since I haven't actually dated any ladies, and the way I feel about guys and girls is completely different.
Guys, even though I don't want to have sex with them, I find them incredibly attractive aesthetically. I feel like I don't quite connect with them on the same level as girls but I could see myself in a relationship with one.
Girls, I find it hard to even tell whether they're attractive physically until I know what their personality is like and even though I feel like I connect way better with them than guys (aside from my coworker, I've always had intensenly emotional friendships with girls that weren't quite traditionally romantic...romantic friendships maybe?) but at this point I can't imagine myself in a relationship with one. I thought that was just another weird aspect of whatever my sexuality is, but I'm starting to think that's just denial and it's just because a lot of people around me would disapprove.
Then there's the fact that if it weren't for everyone else hounding me about it, I'm not sure I'd even want a relationship with anyone. EVERY TIME I find myself thinking 'oh, it would be nice to be in a relationship' it's in response to some outside factor, and what other people think of me. If my homophobic friends weren't a factor I think I could be happy in a relationship with either a guy or a girl, but if NO ONE was a factor (as far as expecting me to be with someone) I feel like I'd much rather just be on my own.
And then I think that if that's the case and I don't even really want to be with anyone (at least right now), should it matter who I could hypothetically be happy in a relationship with if I decided I wanted one?
But then on the other hand it's really frustrating that everyone else can be like 'I'm gay' (or whatever) and I'm like 'I have no fucking clue'.
What am I, FS?
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-05 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)You can have a relationship without sex. That's what an asexual relationship is generally about. So yes, you had full rights to feeling hurt and betrayed.
It sounds like asexual fits as a label. You do realize that you can want and be in a relationship and still be asexual, right? That label is generally purely talking about sexual attraction and lack of, not lack of desire for a relationship.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 01:45 am (UTC)(link)Sorry, I should've explained in the original post. That's what I felt at the time it happened, but now I do realize that that isn't true.
It sounds like asexual fits as a label. You do realize that you can want and be in a relationship and still be asexual, right? That label is generally purely talking about sexual attraction and lack of, not lack of desire for a relationship.
It just seems like if they know the word at at all, most people think that asexual means 'not interested in either sex' (and that actually makes more sense to me as a definition honestly) which isn't necessarily true. And 'potentially interested in a romantic relationship with either sex' isn't something that is really obvious just from 'asexual,' at least not without further explanation, so for me it doesn't quite work as a label in the same way that gay, straight and bi do (those don't require further explanation).
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-05 11:48 pm (UTC)(link)your family and friends only took you seriously if you were in a relationship? wtf?!
also, that guy had no right to cheat on you and you weren't obligated to have sex with him if you both got into the relationship agreeing that you wouldn't. he should have broken up with you instead of cheating
and i'm sorry about your lesbian crush/friend/girlfriend and her partner. that sounds really fucking miserable :(
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-05 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)This.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 02:11 am (UTC)(link)Pretty much. I kind of hate myself for it, but I've actually invented boyfriends before to make them happy. (And it had to be boyfriends because a lot of them would quit speaking to me if I had a girlfriend.) It's total bullshit, but it actually does affect how they treat me. When I'm single and they know about it, they all talk nonstop about their husbands/boyfriends and completely ignore that I'm there, but when I've had a boyfriend (or told them I had one) they actually include me. It makes no sense but that's the way it is.
also, that guy had no right to cheat on you and you weren't obligated to have sex with him if you both got into the relationship agreeing that you wouldn't. he should have broken up with you instead of cheating
Especially since at first I just wanted to be friends and HE was the one to insist that no sex wouldn't be an issue and he didn't care. I don't know why he didn't just take the out right then but maybe he didn't realize how important it was to him until later. He still should've ended things instead of lying to me though.
and i'm sorry about your lesbian crush/friend/girlfriend and her partner. that sounds really fucking miserable :(
I still think of her from time to time but I have no idea where she is now/what she's doing. I just hope she's happier, because yeah, she seemed pretty miserable even though her parents were happy.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 03:03 am (UTC)(link)seriously that shit is emotionally unhealthy
your family and friends are supposed to be good for you D:
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 04:08 am (UTC)(link)Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 03:44 am (UTC)(link)Problem solved?Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 12:07 am (UTC)(link)The realness of a relationship has nothing to do with sex. Sex can happen within a relationship, but if it does not, that does not make the relationship any less real. There are a lot of people in relationships who do not have sex for a variety of reasons (whether they don't wanna have sex in the moment, forever, or are unable to have sex for physical or psychological reasons) and by stating some dumb shit like 'relationships without sex are not real' you are devaluating all of these people and their relationships. Not to mention you are devaluating yourself as well. That guy cheated on you. To cheat on another person is a dickish, selfish thing to do that is completely separate from how much sex is being had (or not being had). Sexual unhappiness might be an explanation behind the impulse to cheat but that does not give anyone a get out of jail for free card regarding it. People saying dumb shit gives me the impulse to punch them too, but that doesn't mean I am allowed to do so. Cheating is the same way. Maybe not having sex was not something he could deal with, which is fine, but that doesn't mean he was free to cheat on you. If he was unhappy with the relationship, he should've broken it up. You are completely entitled to feel hurt over it, and thoughts like 'if only I had sex' etc are ones you need to banish from your brain. You are putting the fault on yourself which is completely not where it needs to go. That guy was the dick who couldn't help but think with his dick and he is the one who needs to be blamed. Not you.
Secondly, being bisexual has nothing to do with whether or not you have dated members of both sexes. We don't tell people they are not heterosexual until they have dated someone of the opposite sex either, so the same goes for bisexuality (and homosexuality for that matter). It has to do with your feelings. If you feel attracted to both sexes, and this attraction does not need to be in exactly the same way, then you can call yourself bisexual. Anyone who has a problem with this is a shitheel.
Now, what you can label yourself is only something you can decide. There are a couple of options, I guess, whether bisexual, biromantic (though personally I find that the -romantic labels have their own unfortunate implications), asexual, whatever. What you need to remember though is that sexual labels are like a generalization. They have some stretch. You do not need to be the ultimate textbook case of whichever label you want to adopt. It is fine if there are some details on which you differ from the standard. Everybody does. No sexual label is ever going to describe you 100% and quite frankly, it doesn't need to. Just identify with what makes you feel happiest (which seems to be asexual from your story) and remember that sexuality is fluid for most people. Maybe in five, ten years you will have shifted and feel different. That's fine.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 01:22 am (UTC)(link)I'm sorry, I should've explained further. I DID feel that way at the time but I do realize now that it's not true. I do sort of feel like society at large doesn't consider a relationship real if it doesn't include sex but maybe that's not the case, and even if it is, I guess it's their problem.
I guess deep down I realize I should blame him instead of myself but even when I try to tell myself that I don't totally believe it. (It doesn't help that I have a mother who thinks sex is the absolute most important part of a relationship and that if someone isn't interested their partner is 100% entitled to cheat and that cheating behind their back is 'kinder' than just leaving them.) So that's good to hear, thank you.
If you feel attracted to both sexes, and this attraction does not need to be in exactly the same way, then you can call yourself bisexual.
That's something I've been thinking about lately but it seems most people think it means you have to be into both in exactly the same ways and equal amounts. Maybe that's just people not quite understanding bisexuality though?
Now, what you can label yourself is only something you can decide. There are a couple of options, I guess, whether bisexual, biromantic (though personally I find that the -romantic labels have their own unfortunate implications), asexual, whatever.
Would you mind sharing what you think the unfortunate implications are? The various *romantic labels sort of bother me, but I've never really been able to explain why.
What you need to remember though is that sexual labels are like a generalization. They have some stretch. You do not need to be the ultimate textbook case of whichever label you want to adopt. It is fine if there are some details on which you differ from the standard. Everybody does. No sexual label is ever going to describe you 100% and quite frankly, it doesn't need to.
This actually helps a lot. I guess I've sort of always had it in my head that there are these rigid boxes that you need to fit into perfectly. I've been questioning that concept more and more recently but this made it click in a way that it really hadn't before, so thank you.
Just identify with what makes you feel happiest (which seems to be asexual from your story) and remember that sexuality is fluid for most people.
To be completely honest bisexual feels more 'right' to me but I didn't feel like I was 'allowed' to use it (as stupid as that sounds). I used asexual at first, and I used it in my post because most people here know what it means and it got my point across, but the more I think about all this stuff I don't particularly like it as a label although I'm not sure I could explain why in a way that makes sense to anyone other than me and even if I could it would take forever. So I don't know, I'm still kind of confused about that part.
But anyway, your comment is awesome and has helped put a lot of things into perspective for me so thank you!
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
Anyone implying that bisexuality means being attracted to different genders the same way/the same amount definitely lacks an understanding of bisexuality. There are some bi people who may be attracted to men and women in the same way, but that's not the case with me, personally, or with most of the other bi people that I know.
SA
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 02:13 am (UTC)(link)And yeah, a lot of it comes down to people have very bad misunderstandings about bisexuality. You know, bisexuals are suppose to always be on and date people of both sexes at the same time and need to always been into all sexes equally and ugh, it is just a load of bullshit. Disregard it. Personally, I am bi and my interest between the sexes fluctuates a lot. Sometimes I am just all 'man, I want a girlfriend', sometimes I am just all 'wow a boyfriend would be nice', sometimes I just don't care. It kinda spins around, really. Whether you are equally into everyone or 80% into girls and 20% into dudes or you flip it around a lot, as long as you wouldn't mind dating people regardless of sex, then you are welcome to the club in my book! To me, every sexuality only really has one main 'rule' (like, homosexuals are into people of their own sex, heterosexuals into the opposite sex, and bisexuals into both) that you should fit, but anything beyond that (having sex a lot/a little/not at all, feeling attracted equally or not, being up for wild monkey sex with a stranger or only being able to get it up for someone who is your best friend) is more like guidelines.
Also, the unfortunate implications. Well, these might just be me personal, but... I dislike how the asexual community (which is where these labels originated from, as far as I know) gets so hyperfocused on sex, to the point where they really seem to create this unnecessary us vs them attitude, -sexuals vs asexual and it just kinda makes me uncomfortable, especially when it so often comes with a nice dose of slutshaming. When someone is bisexual, homosexual, heterosexual, whichever, that label actually doesn't say shit about the amount of sex they are having. The -sexual in the label is not a reference to any making of the beast with two backs, it just about the sexes of the people who you are willing to date. So in that way the labels feel very superfluous. very much 'oh god don't lump me in with those people'.
Plus, well, I think there is a trend were people are trying to narrow down something as complex as sexual attraction into these neat little boxes and labels. Which leads to increasingly narrow labels that to my mind actually do not help anyone. It makes everything more confusing than it should be and gives people unnecessary anxiety over not meeting the whole washlist of tiny details of all these very specific labels like you experienced. Rather than work on finding some tiny obscure label for something who matches the going label for like 80% and then has some personal uniqueness, we should be working on being more inclusive. There is far too much discriminating even within our minority groups. None of this 'you are only a real lesbian/gay/bisexual if XYZ'. We already gotta constantly fight against discrimination coming from the outside, could we at least stop trying to stab each other in the back, you know?
(not to mention, wow overshare? Like, okay, the world at large wants labels, but with all these really narrow new labels popping up, it just feels like, man, I just wanted to know if I had a chance with you, I really don't need to know if you only turn your crank every other tuesday while yodelling in the moonlight. Quit telling me about how much sex you are (not) having! I really do not need to know.)
I think often when it comes to a label, you just have to go with what feels right, as cliche as that sounds, and allow yourself to just trust to know that you know what is best for you. which can be hard when so many people in the world are pretty ignorant or just downright shitty, but just fuck them, you know? They are not you! They do not know you like you know you. the only expert in the field of you is you.
Re: SA
Re: SA
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 04:02 am (UTC)(link)To me, every sexuality only really has one main 'rule' (like, homosexuals are into people of their own sex, heterosexuals into the opposite sex, and bisexuals into both) that you should fit, but anything beyond that (having sex a lot/a little/not at all, feeling attracted equally or not, being up for wild monkey sex with a stranger or only being able to get it up for someone who is your best friend) is more like guidelines.
That makes the most sense to me of anything I've heard. I think all the extra labels/categories just make it unnecessarily complicated, and to be completely honest I think they're what's caused me so much angst and confusion over this.
Also, the unfortunate implications. Well, these might just be me personal, but... I dislike how the asexual community (which is where these labels originated from, as far as I know) gets so hyperfocused on sex, to the point where they really seem to create this unnecessary us vs them attitude, -sexuals vs asexual and it just kinda makes me uncomfortable, especially when it so often comes with a nice dose of slutshaming.
That's actually exactly the same way I feel about it. And I feel kind of slow for just now realizing this but you're exactly right that it's the asexual community who's created that us vs. them mentality with the various labels and their definitions (if someone had asked me before now I probably would've said 'society' was responsible but honestly, I'm not sure that most of society is even aware of those labels). And that definitely goes a long way to explain why asexuality-centered sites have always made me feel so shitty. That kind of us vs. them attitude is not productive or helpful to anyone.
When someone is bisexual, homosexual, heterosexual, whichever, that label actually doesn't say shit about the amount of sex they are having. The -sexual in the label is not a reference to any making of the beast with two backs, it just about the sexes of the people who you are willing to date. So in that way the labels feel very superfluous. very much 'oh god don't lump me in with those people'.
That's how I've always thought of it. I've been told by a handful of people that I'm wrong and the -sexual in all of those terms refers to the actual act of having sex, but that's never made much sense to me.
Plus, well, I think there is a trend were people are trying to narrow down something as complex as sexual attraction into these neat little boxes and labels. Which leads to increasingly narrow labels that to my mind actually do not help anyone. It makes everything more confusing than it should be and gives people unnecessary anxiety over not meeting the whole washlist of tiny details of all these very specific labels like you experienced. Rather than work on finding some tiny obscure label for something who matches the going label for like 80% and then has some personal uniqueness, we should be working on being more inclusive. There is far too much discriminating even within our minority groups. None of this 'you are only a real lesbian/gay/bisexual if XYZ'. We already gotta constantly fight against discrimination coming from the outside, could we at least stop trying to stab each other in the back, you know?
Definitely.
(not to mention, wow overshare? Like, okay, the world at large wants labels, but with all these really narrow new labels popping up, it just feels like, man, I just wanted to know if I had a chance with you, I really don't need to know if you only turn your crank every other tuesday while yodelling in the moonlight. Quit telling me about how much sex you are (not) having! I really do not need to know.)
I think that's why I don't really like asexual as a label (at least when used with its 'official' definition). If it just meant 'not interested in dating either sex' like gay people are into the same sex and straight people are into the opposite sex and bi people are into both, then it would at least make sense to me. But to have a whole separate label/category based entirely on how much sex someone is or isn't having just seems kind of unnecessary to me.
Anyway, yes. You are awesome and your comments have made me feel way better and less confused about things so thank you.
SA
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)I think there is definitely pressure from society on those that do not fit the general sexual mores, but with the asexual community... to me a big problem is that they seem to see it as this pressure that is solely directed at them. As if, the moment you have sex you are totally in the clear and nobody pressures you at all anymore. Which is very much not the case. Especially not if you are a girl. So by making it this us vs them thing, not only are they alienating a lot of people who would otherwise be sympathetic to their cause and also understand what it is like, but well... we need all the people we can get to change this ridiculous attitude our society has towards sex. Again, by dividing us up unnecessarily, we have far less power than if we all come together.
Re: SA
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 04:56 am (UTC)(link)I love this part. This is the reason for my exasperation with specific labels. A lot of this stuff is only relevant if you are looking to date a person or they are looking to date you. For everyone else, going into specifics is about as interesting as hearing that you always put on your left sock before the right one. It's not important and it makes people look vain when they act as if it's just something everyone needs to know.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 01:57 am (UTC)(link)No label fits anyone completely. Ever. There is no perfect straight person or perfect gay person or perfect bisexual person or perfect asexual person. These labels are about identity, and identity is partially about identifying with a group so that you don't have to feel so alone. So choose a label that will help you feel less alone, but don't let it define you completely.
Sexuality is fluid. You can be one thing today and one thing tomorrow and it's okay. The important part is that you're happy, anon, and that's what you should focus on being.
Re: I need some help/advice, guys (sexuality-related, ridiculously long)
(Anonymous) 2013-05-06 03:08 am (UTC)(link)I like the person who said that labels should be descriptive, not prescriptive - "asexual" is a pretty good descriptor of what you're going through right now, but that in no way means you have to stay that way or are only limited to certain interactions. Go with what feels right, in both labels and relationships.