[ SECRET POST #2333 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2333 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 019 secrets from Secret Submission Post #333.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[mekkio]

I want to know. When was the turning point that Moffat went from "can do no wrong" golden boy writer to "that horrible hack"?" Because for the longest he was considered brilliant and daring and blah, blah, blah but now, all I read on the internet is how much his writing is awful. Again, what happened and when exactly was the turning point?

[cassandraoftroy]

I suspect it was when he got put in charge of things. Because I think he's great when he's just a writer and somebody else has ultimate creative control. But he needs a leash. There are a lot of writers out there like that, actually; lots of good ideas, but need someone to tell them, "No."

[(Anonymous)]

In other words, he's to Doctor Who what Brannon Braga is to Star Trek.

Interesting, intelligent, creative writer who can come up with really weird, interesting ideas, but god forbid he ever gets put in ultimate control of a show.

[(Anonymous)]

It can't of been that because he's been a showrunner since the late eighties early 90s. Plus I suspect it's more a fandom hate than a universal hate.

[(Anonymous)]

Um, what? No, he hasn't. What are you even talking about? He's only been showrunner since 2010.

[(Anonymous)]

I completely agree with this assessment and I've been thinking this for a few years ago. I also agree with the comment below this that his problems were there when he just a writer, not a showrunner, but having someone to tell him no probably helped tone those down.

[(Anonymous)]

Someone with too much time on their hands should take a sample over time of mentions of Moffat and graph the positivity.

[iggy]

I was wary of him even before his time as showrunner began. If you look at his RTD era episodes they have the same issues his episodes as showrunner do. It's just that they're a bit less noticeable since there aren't near as many of those episodes.

[(Anonymous)]

I've noticed this in some of his earlier stuff he's written, too, like Press Gang, especially surrounding the behavior of a female character going through a breakup. I still think she could've done her job and not make others feel bad because of the breakup, Moffat.

(I will admit, I still have a soft spot for the show, no matter how many problems I find in it. The problems in Press Gang haven't hampered my love of it. Doctor Who, on the other hand, suffers to me because, like other people said, Moffat needs a leash.)

[othellia]

Started in the middle of Doctor Who season six - either around the time of AGMGtW or Let's Kill Hitler - steadily decreasing in faith until the Wedding of River Song, at which point people's opinions began to really solidify.

[fauxkaren]

Yeah, I think that is how it generally went in fandom. Mid series 6 people starrted to side eye him and TWORS was the nail in the cofffin.

[fauxkaren]

lol. For me it started with TGITF and then my dislike was cemented after TSITL/TFOTD.

[fenm]

Care to elaborate?

[(Anonymous)]

Preeeeeeeeeeach. I haaaaaaaaaated Girl in the Fireplace, but to say that in fandom around the time it first aired was grounds for instant execution/crucifixion, LOL.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't the backlash always follow success? First you're the golden boy who can do no wrong. Then you can do no right. Then you leave and suddenly all people can remember is how wonderful you were.

[(Anonymous)]

nope.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't watched DW since the first half-season with Eleven, so I can't talk there, but on Sherlock Scandal in Belgravia was where it hit. The first season was a bit dodgy in places but overall pretty cool and exciting. Then Scandal happened.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, this. I wasn't ever much of a Nu!Who fan proper (though I did watch fairly regularly whenever the catchup marathons were on), but with Sherlock the travesty they made of SCAN was definitely the end of the line, for me,

[deird1]

When he made River Song the Ponds' daughter.

[(Anonymous)]

It was more the beginning of Season 6 for me (the treatment of female characters and America, ugh), but yeah, making River the Ponds' daughter really turned me off. I just wanted to her to flit in and out of the show for a few years, never giving a full explanation of herself, but just being mysterious (like Captain Jack retained some mystery).

[intrigueing]

I think it was somewhere around the third episode. When they realized he was capable of allowing the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks on the show and was therefore fallible and was not, in fact, the Great Messiah of Whodom Come To Deliver Us From Rusty, everyone went bugfuck insane and had a big broken pedestal/fallen idol moment.

After that, everyone was much more clear-sighted about his flaws, and from there it became typical showrunner-scapegoating. Not that Moffat doesn't have plenty of awful legit flaws - I could write novels tearing apart his dreck if I had the time - but I think the tides of fandom, the part of fandom that doesn't actually look at or care about his actual legit flaws, and just wants to whine and blame someone for canon not adhering to their headcanon? Started around VotD.

[lex_antonia]

I want to know. When was the turning point that Moffat went from "can do no wrong" golden boy writer to "that horrible hack"?"

Let's Kill Hitler.

I used to be a big fangirl of his, and some of things he wrote are still among my favourite tv episodes ever. I still get excited about his work on Sherlock, but when it comes to Doctor Who, it's like he's not even trying anymore. The Angels Take Manhattan is practically a patchwork of his other episodes, every single scene of it has been done before. By him. Sometimes with exactly the same dialogue. It's one thing to not live up to the standards people hold you to, but it's quite another to blatantly not give a fuck. And repeating your own episodes word for word is most definitely not giving a fuck.

He need to form a club with Paul Auster, basically.

[(Anonymous)]

Only fandom seems to dislike him, most tv critics still praise him and adore his work.

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, I've seen a lot of people more experienced with Doctor Who criticizing the hell out of him. Even non-fans who liked the show before but weren't hardcore about it at all.

Critics who praise him to high heaven are often holding him to a different standard than the critics who bash him -- as in, they're not even focusing on the same things when they evaluate his work. We bash Moffat for not living up to Who's standards regarding basic storytelling and plotting and characterization and messages and themes, but compared to most stuff on TV, Moffat-Who is still pretty high on the list when it comes to simply having some goddamn imagination in the concepts and sparkle in the dialogue, multitudes of other flaws be damned.

[kaijinscendre]

August 31, 2011 I believe.