[ SECRET POST #2413 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2413 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I entirely don't agree with your sentiment.

BUT

A couple of years back I cosplayed as Misty Knight (My Girlfriend at the time was into metalwork and hooked me up with the metal sleeve thingie that covered my arm and hand. It was fucking awesome.) The abuse I got for being a white girl cosplaying a black character was well over the top. I got literall screamed at by about five different people that day, and got a LOT of shitty looks. It was crushing. Even worse because I looked and felt like a fucking boss in the getup.

/anecdote

[likeadeuce]

OK, look, I don't think people should have screamed at you for that. I bet it was a badass cosplay and on most levels it's none of their business.

But OP is basically saying that she is GLAD there is only (say) a 5% chance of this happening to her, but a 95% chance of this happening to people of a different race. I can't exactly work up a lot of sympathy.

[(Anonymous)]

That is not at all what the secret maker said. Did you even read it? OP said nothing about other races getting harassed.

[likeadeuce]

No, but she said she's glad that a vast majority of the characters available to cosplay are white and she's glad for it. So either she's assuming that POC wouldn't face any opposition for playing a white character (which I don't buy) or she doesn't care what anybody nonwhite has to put up with.

(N.B., I'm white and I don't cosplay, I just am side-eying this secret. See visp's comments above.)

People tend to care what happens to them first

[insanenoodlyguy]

This is not problematic. This is good old fashioned priorities. You care more abut shit happening to you and your immediate loved ones.

This does not mean you are unaware of shitty things that happen to others or are lacking in empathy. caring about yourself first does not mean you don't care about others.

Re: People tend to care what happens to them first

[likeadeuce]

Well, that is certainly one way to look at it.

ETA: PS, I enjoy the assumption that it is impossible to have immediate loved ones of a different race. A plus.

Re: People tend to care what happens to them first

[(Anonymous)]

So you prefer the way of looking at it that Op MUST not care about non-white people. Nice assumptions there.

Re: People tend to care what happens to them first

[(Anonymous)]

wow, you are such a dickhead. of the slightly dim variety.

[(Anonymous)]

But OP is basically saying that she is GLAD there is only (say) a 5%

That's the part I don't entirely agree with.

[likeadeuce]

Look, if the secret had said, "I think it's unfair that people of any race can't cosplay characters of another race without being criticized for it, because that's not what cosplay is about to me" -- I don't know whether or not I agree with that, but it seems like a perfectly reasonable opinion. "I'm glad most characters are white because it means I personally don't have to deal with criticism very often," is a different statement.

[(Anonymous)]

Why is OP not allowed to make a secret about her own personal experiences and feelings without dragging in other people too? Are we now not allowed to talk about our own experiences and feelings anymore without making sure to discuss other peoples' experiences and feelings because otherwise ours aren't valid?

[likeadeuce]

OP is ALLOWED to make a secret about whatever the hell she wants. I'm allowed to point out that, by the logic of her own secret, this is always going to be a problem for anyone who wants to cosplay another race, and she's glad it is only her problem on a rare occasion instead of 'almost all the time' as it would be if she wasn't white.

I don't think there's any point in me reexplaining what I've already said multiple times and you are pretending to be too denseto understand. Done here.

[(Anonymous)]

so what, OP was obligated to make a secret about other people rather than one about her own personal experiences? It's not a Moral Imperative to make everything about other people all the time. If OP is afraid of being treated badly for cosplaying a non-white character, that does not mean that she is a-okay with non-white people getting treated badly for cosplaying a white character. You need to stop putting words in peoples' mouths.

[nyxelestia]

Actually, OP only said they were glad about that 5% part, in that only 5% of the characters they might want to cosplay will garner any conflict based on race. They made no comment on anyone else's experiences, and judging by the fact they posted it here, they are well aware this is a problematic situation. They are expressing something which they feel guiltily grateful for.

And honestly, considering some of the bullshit ANYONE who cosplays another race puts up with? I don't blame them. I don't think anyone should be put through hell for what they cosplay, regardless of 'which direction' the race change is in. There is a big difference between being grateful that one's own race matches up to the majority of characters they want to cosplay, and saying this is a good situation and needs to stay that way. OP only expressed the former.

[likeadeuce]

'There is a big difference between being grateful that one's own race matches up to the majority of characters they want to cosplay, and.saying this is a good situation and needs to stay that way.'

So you're reading the OP as saying that she enjoys the benefits of being white but feels bad about enjoying it, so it's like a white guilt confession? *cocks head* OK, I didn't get that level of self-awareness out of it, but I suppose that would be the way of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[nyxelestia]

It's not benefit of that doubt, it's just trying to avoid jumping to conclusions or assuming things about the OP.

Here's what we know:

1.) Majority of Marvel heroines are white
2.) OP can cosplay these characters without accusations of white washing
3.) They are grateful that they can do so

If you want to get technical about it, inferring that the OP is white is on it's own an extrapolation - all we actually know for sure is that the OP's outer appearance matches the race of the majority of Marvel heroines. For all we know, OP isn't even actually white but just looks that way (not that it's particularly relevant, as for the purposes of this discussion these two things are interchangeable - I'm just making a point that there is a big gap between what's actually stated and what's being implied and inferred).

Now, additionally, there's a bit of meta-data here leading to #4:

4.) They posted this as a secret

This implies that they are well aware of the fact this gratitude for their situation is something to be guilty about, something to be kept secret. We don't know for sure - maybe OP just considers F!S another place to share things and doesn't feel sorry about this at all. But how likely is that, given the context of the secret itself and the community it was just posted in?

So yeah, I actually am getting a "white guilt confession" out of it. And I don't think it even requires a high level of self-awareness for that white guilt to happen. I mean, racism is a big issue, especially in areas like America where a big portion of the Marvel fandom is based. And especially in the wake of recent events (namely the Trayvon Martin case), awareness of the fact that some people get advantages due to not just their race, but the race they appear to be, has grown dramatically. When my white and white-looking friends volunteer, jokingly or not, to go out for various food and drink runs late at night because they are least likely to get shot, it's not due to intense racial studies or heavy education in ethnic conflicts, nor is it due to high levels of self-awareness. It's just basic awareness of the world we live in. And not everyone has that, but that doesn't mean it's a "high level" when someone does.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said.

[likeadeuce]

OK, I already said this elsewhere on the thread, so I'm just going to repeat:

There are 'this is secret because I feel guilty about it' secrets and there are 'this is secret because I don't want to be criticized' secrets. OP doesn't say anything that I interpret as guilt but directly states that she doesn't want to be criticized (which is basically what 'accused of whitewashing' boils down to. No mention of abuse or censorship in OP's post, just of being told that people don't like what she's doing.)

I have no way of knowing what was in OP's mind, and maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt when something's ambiguous, but I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that the motives stated in the post are the ones that motivated the post.

(And you're right that we technically don't know whether she's white, or female for that matter, but the secret is written to strongly imply that she is. I think people writing posts have to take some responsibility for the words they use.)

[(Anonymous)]

She's saying she's occasionally glad that the characters she likes are white because it means cosplaying them = not getting harassed by SJW. She's not saying she's glad that the majority of characters in all fandoms are white, or that it means it's harder for anyone non-white.

It's not even just a 5% chance when it comes to cosplay. When you're a girl cosplaying almost anything you'll get shit for it if it gets enough attention. Not in person, necessarily, but on the internet? There's no end in sight.

[likeadeuce]

This secret is turning out to be a good Rorschach test.

1) OP does not say she's glad 'the characters she likes' are white. She says she is glad 'most' characters are white.
2) OP does not say she is worried about 'getting harassed'. She is worried about 'being accused of whitewashing,' ie, being criticized. The secret says nothing about harassment.
3) 'She's not saying she's glad that the majority of characters in all fandoms are white' The secret says "I'm glad most heroines are white" & shows a spread of Marvel comics characters. So I guess technically she COULD be saying 'I'm glad the majority of female characters in my fandom are white, but it would be great if male Marvel characters and every OTHER fandom in the world were more diverse,' but I think think that's a stretch. Regarding the only fandom she mentioned, she said exactly the thing you are claiming she didn't say.
4) 'or that it means it's harder for anyone non-white' So there's some kind of math at work here in which it is possible to be happy to be the majority but not happy that other people are in the minority? Two sides, same coin.

I'm about tired of flogging this horse, but your comment above is trying to tell me that the OP doesn't say things she said, and says things she doesn't say.

[(Anonymous)]

1) + 3) I HIGHLY doubt she wishes all characters to be white in all fandoms. That is not at all part of her sentiment. Her sentiment was that she dislikes being given crap for wanting to cosplay her favourite characters when they are of a different race, so she feels a knee-jerk reaction that equates to being happy that most of the characters she enjoys are of her race so that, come time to picking a cosplay, she won't have to pick a 2nd, 3rd, 4th... and so on option for what to cosplay. Her issues would not exist if there were widespread representation of every race and so it would no longer be as big an issue to some to "race-bend" for cosplay.

2) Cosplaying a non-white character while being white is not white-washing. This is getting ridiculous. It's not taking away roles from minorities, it's not harming anyone, it is a very simple expression of love for a character. People should not be shamed to want to represent their favourite characters, even if their build, gender, race, or size is not the same as the character.

4) That's ENTIRELY possible and it happens all the time. Are you not happy to be in the percentile in the world it is that has access to clean water and a computer, while still wishing the whole world were able to have this as well? Being grateful at having a privilege is not at all the same as being happy others do not have it. Being grateful for a privilege is not horrible; not caring or trying to change that privilege is.

[likeadeuce]

You seem to be defending the argument you would have made if you were the OP, rather than what the OP actually said. If OP's words actually seemed to be advocating an equal opportunity world as you are suggesting, I would never have made a negative comment. You have some interesting points but they aren't what I was responding to in the post, so I think we can wrap this up.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry according to commentators above SJWs only exist on the Internet. And are easy to get away from

[(Anonymous)]

lol unless you wore a bad afro/wig and went in blackface, i really doubt this happened.

and if you did go in blackface and wear a bad wig, you deserved it hth

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't do blackface, of course, but I did have a wig (It's Misty Frigging Knight. The Hair is as iconic as Tony Starks Moustache.) I really don't see the problem with that.

Also, Fuck you, "i really doubt this happened". asshole.