[ SECRET POST #2417 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2417 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Interesting Piece on Tipping

[ill_omened]

http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-restaurant-part-1-overview/

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[fingalsanteater]

I read this article this morning. It was interesting. I've never really worked in a tip reliant job, so I don't have too much to say on the subject.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a little disgusted by this guy's comparison of tipped servers to strippers, especially when tipping (at least in the US) has been rendered necessary by laws that allow restaurants to pay their workers a fraction of minimum wage, under the assumption that they will make up the rest in tips. If you (rhetorical you) want to render tipping unnecessary, pay your workers a living wage. Don't impugn the motives of customers who want to make sure that your workers can pay their rent.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[(Anonymous)]

I read that not as him comparing the servers to strippers, but that these men who were so upset they couldn't tip were making the comparison in their minds. They were thinking of servers akin to strippers - there to please them and that the tip gave them control over these people. I don't think the author felt that way though. But obviously ymmv.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[fingalsanteater]

Yeah, he wasnt saying servers are like strippers. He was saying that people see servers as someone who is there to please the tipper because they are only motivated by money.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[chardmonster]

Yeah, look: if I want to leave the server $5, their manager isn't allowed to stop me. That is an agreement between me and the server, who is a human being and not a cash register.

The owner owns the cash register, not the server.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[chardmonster]

No see it's okay to look down on your employees when you use the term 'transgressive.'

It's especially easier to say that your workers aren't allowed to make social compacts without your involvement if you use the word 'transgressive.'

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[(Anonymous)]

Not when you're on the clock working, no.

Well, true

[chardmonster]

You can be an utter asshole

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

That's not being an utter asshole.

But still, good job encouraging the perpetuation of a practice which literally renders women into services rendered, and disproportionately punishes anyone who isn't a middle aged white male.

Re: Well, true

[chardmonster]

Good job completely erasing any agency servers have because they often have lady parts and sometimes skin that isn't white. Clearly the only people able to make decisions on their own behalf are white men who are older than you specifically.

I think servers should make at least minimum wage--that is, the real minimum wage. And I think they should be allowed to make tips on top of that if the customer decides to leave it. It's not as if that gets taken out of the bill.

If a restaurant wants to pay the servers decently and say that tips aren't necessary, that's just fine! I like that. And I'm still allowed to leave a $5 if I want. If I leave a five and the manager confiscates it (unless there's a tip sharing policy), he's stealing it.

But go ahead. I'm sure you acting like you own whatever female server of color who is approximately your age you've conjured up in your head represents kind management.

You're a good little capitalist, y'know.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

Well obviously you're allowed to leave it. They're hardly going to call the police and have you arrested for littering. The server can decide to keep it if they want, and he can decide to let them go if they do.

The people in charge, however, are perfectly allowed to tell servers not to take it because it encourages a deeply harmful misogynistic practice. And it does. Whether the manager is a straight white man or a transgendered gay PoC doesn't alter that in any way but rhetoric (I know you're not that stupid, but you really can be a dense petulant child when you've decided you;re right you know), it's one of those things that even if you stop believing it to be true, doesn't go away.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

"(I know you're not that stupid, but you really can be a dense petulant child when you've decided you;re right you know)"

Well, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black in this case.

Since tipping's "a deeply harmful misogynistic practice" (and therefore only negatively impacts women), does that mean that men who get tipped are allowed to keep it?

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

No because the entire setup of tipping is harmful in itself.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

...to women. Only. Even when men are being tipped.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

If you want to do away with tipping culture, the way to achieve that is to require restaurant owners to pay waitstaff a living wage (or at least the same minimum wage that workers in non-tipping industries are paid) -- not to let restaurant owners fire workers for accepting a tip. Think about the situation you're suggesting.

A customer, possibly assuming that their server is making $2.85 an hour plus tips, leaves a $5 bill on the table after their meal when they depart. The server now has to take that $5 bill to the manager and say something like, "A customer left this on the table for me because they thought I did a good job, but I know I'm not allowed to keep it, so I'll just give it to you, Sir."

Who, exactly, is demeaning the server in this situation?

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

Are you illiterate, read the article that got linked, the thing we've all been talking about.

And explaining they can't take a tip and placing it in a charity jar is not as demeaning as tipping, no.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

Is it demeaning to haggle? Is it demeaning to pay based upon quality of services provided or goods produced? Is it demeaning to pay commission?

You wanna talk about "demeaning?" Let's talk about getting paid a wage that bears little resemblance to what you do and whether or not anyone benefits from it. That wage is determined by some random face who makes a metric fuckton of money off of what you do rather than off of what he or she can do him or herself.

Which situation would you prefer:
-getting paid for the actual results of your actual labor, or
-getting paid a base that has absolutely nothing to do with any actual results?

Would you rather work your ass off and be compensated for it, or work your ass off and get dick-all because OH you have a SALARY?

[chardmonster]

You know maybe we shouldn't let servers handle money at all! Money is dirty. Maybe we shouldn't pay them, either. I mean that probably hurts their dignity, being paid for customer service like a common stripper.

Re: Well, true

[(Anonymous)]

...because all servers are women, now?

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[mechanosapience]

There was a lot of projection of his own fucked up ideas about his servers in that section. At least he acknowledges that he used to be like the butthurt customers who no longer can pretend that a big enough tip will convince a waitress to sleep with them.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[ariakas]

I worked a couple of tipped jobs during summer vacation in high school and in early undergrad before I started getting internships. I relate to some of this.

One example was a car wash. The guys in the back (and it was always guys, as the manager believed men weren't as personable and wouldn't makes as nice an impression) vacuumed the cars and did small detailing, while the people at the front (women, and particularly cheerful men) would do the washing proper as well as the toweling off and hand the cars over to their owners. This meant we received the tips, and from there would put them in a box for equal distribution at the end of the shift. We all made the same wage otherwise.

It sounds equitable, but there were a few problems that gave rise to ill feelings with this arrangement: for example, while the physical labour was about the same, the guys in the back never had to deal with unhappy (or even irate) customers, even if said customer was angry about a problem with the vacuuming/detailing. That was our job, exclusively. The second was that sometimes customers would ask to tip "the boys" - and as the manager had a policy that if a customer asks to tip someone exclusively, that person got the whole tip. But since they were handing the money to us, and thus assumed it went to us, no one ever asked to tip "the girls". The result was that not only did they get more tips, they never had to perform customer service. I can imagine a server feeling similarly in a restaurant with a tip pool (i.e. having to deal with angry customers because the kitchen mucked something up, yet having to share a tip that was given solely because of that server's outstanding service with a kitchen staff that had nothing to do with it).

Of course, we solved it by keeping an amount equal to whatever the guys in back got extra out of the tip box and distributed it amongst ourselves before the end of the day. If the manger knew about it, he didn't say anything.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[chardmonster]

HOW DARE YOU

YOU MADE AN ARRANGEMENT WITH THE OTHER EMPLOYEES WITHOUT ASKING THE AUTHORITY FIRST

YOU ARE A BAD PERSON

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[ariakas]

lol

Well, half of the other employees. Because I'm pretty sure the gentlemen would not have agreed to it. Tough shit, though.

Re: Interesting Piece on Tipping

[(Anonymous)]

who are you quoting