fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2420 ]

[ SECRET POST #2420 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2420 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #346.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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You deserve to be happy too!

.....

Does he?

I mean, lbr, his massive ego led to him releasing Lucifer. LUCIFER.

And it's not like he really ever apologized (without blaming someone else in the process) or made up for it or cared about how it affected anyone other than himself. Jumping in that hole at the end of season 5, it was like, the least he could do. And he wouldn't have had to in the first place if he hadn't been so egofuckingtistical as to think he could overpower SATAN.

IDK, Sam just always seems so fucking sociopathic and self-centered and pretentious, I don't feel like he deserves anything but a kick in the ass.

/Still bitter that Sam was given a free pass into Heaven after all the shit he pulled. At least make him say 20 Hail Mary's or something, ffs.

Lemme guess. You think Sam should apologize to Dean, 'cos Dean's oh-so-fucking perfect and if it wasn't for Sam he'd be happy. Right?

Of course there are things Sam should apologize to Dean for, just like there are things Dean should apologize to Sam for. My point was that Sam never really, truly apologizes for anything. It's like "I'm sorry I released Lucifer, but you're really bossy, so it's actually really all your fault".

Dean's not perfect. He's a fucking disaster and pretty much a total dick most of the time, but he's not as infuriating as Sam, for me.

As far as Dean being happy if it wasn't for Sam... well.... maybe? Sam too. I think their relationship is really toxic and it would be better for both of them to like, have separate lives and shit. Miles vary, yadda yadda yadda.

YES. The only way I can see the two of them happy (if they're both mutually alive) is if they're at separate ends of the country doing their own things.

Lemme guess, Dean's end of the country contains a naked Castiel, right?

And OP seems to forget that as a result,Sam was in Hell for longer than Dean AND had a worse time of it.

UGH I'm so sick of Sam and his WORST PAIN EVA overandoverandfuckingover. Can we just have ONE fucking season where he's not the biggest fucking woobie-sufferer in the universe, PLEASE.

Wow. Your post sparked a bit of rage in me there. Huh.

Or, you know, Dean was just a stronger person and not a whiny little shit.

Accurate.

Wait, what show are you watching. All this show is about is Dean whining. Without endless Dean angst, there would be NO show. SMH at blind Dean girls

Oh please. Who doesn't whine on this show. Sam is still a shitpump who you could trust about as much as a plug nickel.

That... is not my read on the character at all.

Hasn't Sam been borderline-sociopathic and self-centered and pretentious from the start? I mean, that's kind of his thing as a character. There's a reason why he's the only brother constantly going evil. I feel like (well, I felt like, when I was still watching) the show should just commit to him being a villain of his own free will already.

Hasn't Sam been borderline-sociopathic and self-centered and pretentious from the start?

Yep. And it'd be a lot more interesting if the show would just embrace it. Fandom too.

Get this, I have always seen Sam's story as one of victim blaming and shaming. He's been constantly violated by the Supernatural his whole life, and those supernatural forces have been aided and abetted by his mother, his father and his brother. His mother sold him about before he was born, his father gave him a horrible childhood and wouldn't/didn't tell him about his suspicions and Dean brought him back from the dead and then believed that he had been changed by the whole deal. He's been manipulated, exploited and violated and because of that he's tainted. A monster, no longer pure etc etc. He asked for it, you might say, because he tried to live his own life free from the control of his family and hunting.

Being a victim doesn't absolve Sam of all his shitty decisions.

Almost everyone on the show has been victimized. It's more about the decisions they make after the abuse they suffer. Now, personally, I don't think that there's anything terribly wrong about Sam wanting to get out. I mean, yeah, it seems selfish to me because, well, if you knew that there were monsters out there and you just decided to fuck off and let people die...that's a selfish thing to do. But people are allowed to be selfish. It's one of our defining characteristics as a species. And Sam would probably end up helping people out some other way, so, shit, get him out of there.

I don't think people take issue with Sam wanting out of the life. That's perfectly reasonable.

It's all the other shit that make people side-eye him (for example: when he quit hunting in early S5, abandoning Dean knowing he was Michael's vessel and being hunted by Heaven, not feeling the need to help clean up his mess from releasing Lucifer, only coming back when he found out he was Lucifer's vessel, then he was all about the quest because it was about him again, that kind of stuff).

Even in S8, with him fucking off with Amelia for a year, people didn't blame him for that, what they had a problem with was him not giving a shit about his missing brother or the teenager he saw kidnapped or the Leviathans running around eating people. He just got in the car and drove until he found a good place to stop. No one seems to blame him for wanting a normal life, they blame him for abandoning his responsibilities.

Yeah, I get that, I do. Honestly, Sam is probably my least favorite character to watch on the show for all the reasons you brought up. It's really easy for me to start flat out hating him. But at the same time... I can't help but bring fourth wall breakage into it. Sam wouldn't look like half the asshole he does if badly plotted contrivances didn't keep shoving him out and dragging him back in (I.E. they needed Sam to not be hunting while Dean was in Purgatory, so they just shuffled him off with Amelia). And it's been a while since I saw season 5, but wasn't it Dean that sent him away and told him he was a danger to himself and others? I honestly don't remember and could be completely wrong.

Sam wouldn't look like half the asshole he does if badly plotted contrivances didn't keep...

See, like you, in the beginning, I always assumed Sam's assholishness was a result of lazy writing, but after, IDK, the first 4 years or so, I started to accept that Sam is genuinely, canonically an asshole. I mean, S8 for example, I can think of 3-5 scenarios off the top of my head that could have easily negated the shit-head factor of his year off, but the writers chose to make him an asshole. It's deliberate. Which makes it not so much a plot contrivance, and more.... canon, doesn't it?

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(Anonymous) - 2013-08-19 04:06 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2013-08-19 04:24 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2013-08-19 04:33 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2013-08-19 04:59 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2013-08-19 07:56 (UTC) - Expand

Aaannnd so has Dean. And so has Bobby. And so has Mary, John, and everyone else in the show. They've all been victimized by the supernatural, they've all made awful mistakes because of it, they all had to own up to those mistakes, and pay for them in blood, and if they survived the payment, try their best not to fuck up the same way again. Sam is not unique, and I don't want him evil because I think he's a monster who deserves a terrible fate, I want him evil because he's better at it than being a good guy, and might actually get something accomplished for once.

Mary, John and Dean all made Crossroads deals and paid price, Sam is the only one who did't make a deal but suffered the consequences of those deals made by his family both directly and indirectly. Sucks to Sammy, I guess.

Uh. Didn't one of those deals bring Sam back to life? From being dead, and quite possibly in Hell? Sucks to be the guy whose brother loved him so much as to sell his soul for him, I guess.

Dean brought Sam back for Dean. Not because he thought Sam was in Hell, why would he? He made the deal for any number of fucked up reasons but none of them had anything to do with saving Sam's soul or whatever. It was a purely selfish act which set them on the road the whole Satan shebang.

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