fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2473 ]

[ SECRET POST #2473 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2473 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #353.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Do think pro-life is inherently anti-feminist?

I'm pro-life but I understand that there are different situations in which abortion is the only reasonable course of action. I don't think it's inherently anti-feminist, I just think it's co-opted by anti-feminist groups (like intolerant religious fanatics).

I think it depends on your reasoning or arguments. So no, it's not inherently anti-feminist. But definitely can often be really really anti-feminist.

No. It isn't. Given that the majority of pro-life leaders are women, it's kind of patronizing to claim that they're all too stupid to figure out what their own rights are.

So, no.

" Given that the majority of pro-life leaders are women"

citation needed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/20-week-abortion-bill_n_3385122.html

"20-Week Abortion Bill Advanced By All-Male Congressional Panel "

Hmmm...

Uh

That just proves that most of Congress is male.

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

No.

I think there's a lot of truth to the idea that much of the actually-existing pro-life movement (at least in the US) is anti-feminist. But is it inherently so, no. It is not inherently anti-feminist - nor is it inherently pro-feminist. In and of itself, it's orthogonal to feminism.

That depends on whether you think that it's anti-feminist to assert that a woman's body can be owned or controlled by someone other than the woman herself. The "pro-life" movement asserts that a woman should be legally compelled to have her body used to sustain another person's life, regardless of whether she consents to this use. That doesn't seem super feminist to me, but I guess other people have other opinions.

no. I'm pro-life and female, and definitely feminist. the issue I have is with people calling abortion "reproductive rights"/ "the right to your body," and that's not how I see it. I believe that everyone has the right to live, from the time their heart starts beating onward, which obviously trumps the "I have the right to get rid of this baby" concept. I understand why people disagree and I am not against people disagreeing, but I AM against people insisting that I'm not a feminist because I don't support abortion. (I will add that I am not against it as an absolute last resort up to about the fifth week of pregnancy, as that is when the human heart typically starts beating.)

Edited 2013-10-11 02:02 (UTC)

The trouble with your complaint about framing is that it IS a matter of "the right to your body." Everyone has a right to live, but everyone does not have a right to live inside somebody else. I have no right to any portion of your body, even if I need it to survive. So no, one person's right to live does not "obviously trump" another person's right not to be forced to share their body with anyone else. That's the point of contention that you seem not to be getting about the pro-reproductive-rights position.

Point of information here - when you're making this argument, are you assigning unborn babies the moral standing of human beings? Do you think your position is basically true even if life begins at conception?

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 02:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 02:32 (UTC) - Expand

Exactly this.

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

shinyhappypanic - 2013-10-11 03:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 04:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 05:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 05:01 (UTC) - Expand

I agree with you. It's not black and white, in my opinion, but in a general sense I agree.

Only if you're forcing it on other women. It's feminist to choose to be pro-life, and feminist to choose to be pro-choice. Putting down other women on their choice is anti-feminist.

So... your argument is that being pro-life isn't inherently anti-feminist, as long as you define pro-life as "pro-choice"?

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 02:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 02:39 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 03:20 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 02:43 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 05:04 (UTC) - Expand

All I know is that it's not feminist.

Historically, many of the leaders of the original feminist movement were vehemently anti-abortion.

These days, though, the pro-life movement has been so co-opted by an anti-feminist contingent that it's rare to see the one without the other.

The movement? yes.

People think that pro-life/pro-choice are just handy terms to refer to your stance on abortion, but the fact is that they are movements which are trying to achieve things on a political level. And I side-eye anyone who says they're "pro-life but don't want women's health rights taken away" because, newsflash, that's actually being pro-choice.

If a pro-lifer disagrees with the morality of abortion as a procedure, won't have one herself if she's a woman, and tries to discourage women from having one without using laws to force the issue, then no, I don't think they're inherently anti-feminist. But if they want to change laws to control other women's bodily autonomy? There's just no way I can reconcile that with any form of feminism.

Really depends on what you do with it, imo. Believing that life is always preferable to death is one thing, but believing that some lives are more valuable than others (which is something pro-life advocates generally do) is something else entirely.

....this 'some lives are more important than others' thing mystifies me. I've never, ever heard a pro-life person accused of that

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 04:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 21:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Inspired by troll on P1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-11 04:12 (UTC) - Expand

Believing life begins at conception (whatever the hell that means) doesn't make you anti-feminist.

However, actively trying to take rights away from women - rights that concern a woman's health, both physical and psychological, and the right to choose whether or not she wants to go through a life-changing event and probably commit to being a mother - that IS anti-feminist.

Sorry, but trying to take rights away from women is the definition of anti-feminisim.

That depends on why they're pro-life.

If it's because they legitimately think it's terminating a life and support things like birth-control programs to prevent unwanted pregnancy, that's one thing.

But if they're pro-life because abortion encourages 'free sex', or because it's a woman's purpose to be a mother, or the woman needs to 'suffer the consequences', or want to support a 'culture of life' (but still support wars/death penalty/etc), or that no woman wants abortion but they're tricked into it, or something else of the like, then that shit's anti-feminist.

I'm not sure if it's anti-feminist, but I've found it to be inherently anti-woman. The mother's health and well-being are not considered as highly by that movement as those of the unborn child. I think that's illogical bullshit, personally.

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