fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2535 ]

[ SECRET POST #2535 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2535 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 026 secrets from Secret Submission Post #362.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I find posts like this

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9c75b50197204b84fbeddeaa070c49db/tumblr_mf8nayoRq91qm8zqco1_500.jpg

to be really gross, because while I can agree with some of it (women should be able to dress how they want without being worried about getting raped), I've seen it used to shut down things about self-defense, and common sense (don't let your friend go to someone's house when they're drunk, stick with groups, etc.), and I know, I know, we should just "tell rapists not to rape", but the fact is, for most rapists*, rape is about power & control, telling them not to rape isn't actually going to work.

And now you're shaming people for trying to find ways to protect themselves from a predator by telling them that they secretly just want someone else to be raped instead, and if they were a good feminist, they'd let themselves be raped.

I hate this.

* excluding the college-aged "wait, that's rape?" douche who doesn't realize that drunk** sex =/= consensual

** drunk, not "I had a beer, let's bang"

Yeah. Just because you have a realistic vision of "how things should be AND CAN BE" doesn't mean you should ignore "how things actually are AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME."

People simplify this into making the bonehead reasoning that "this is how things are" = "this is natural and how things will always be and you can't do anything to change it." Sure, people can work to change it, and I firmly believe that people can change it, but in the meantime, sorry, but you have to adapt to the current situation in some ways.

Telling rapists not to rape should really be called comprehensively teaching about what rape is so kids don't grow up to be those "wait, that's rape?" douches.

"Don't rape" doesn't teach shit when people think rape is nothing but men hiding in dark alleys and jumping on the first woman who walks by.

That doesn't make up the overwhelming majority of rapists.

The idea of a man not knowing that having sex with a passed out girl is rape is pretty much a myth. Most are serial predators who are entirely aware of what they're doing.

Now this doesn't make 'don't rape campaigns' completely non-effective because those predators function within rape cultures, and non-rapists will make those excuses for them, so demolishing that can stop the support they feel they have.

Considering how many times I've seen people get outraged that having sex with a very drunk person is legally considered rape, I wouldn't be so sure that it's a myth. Hell, I've seen people get angry that not stopping after hearing 'no' is rape. (Looking at you, Dan Savage and your shitty fans.)

http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

http://www.wcsap.org/sites/www.wcsap.org/files/uploads/webinars/SV on Campus/Repeat Rape.pdf

(David Lisak and Stephanie McWhorter are the word in studying rape in a college and military enviroment).

http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/240951/original/PredatoryNature.pdf

"Many of the motivational factors that were identified in incarcerated rapists have been shown to apply equally to undetected rapists. When compared to men who do not rape, these undetected rapists are measurably more angry at women, more motivated by the need to dominate and control women, more impulsive and disinhibited in their behavior, more hyper-masculine in their beliefs and attitudes, less empathic and more antisocial."

The men who take advantage of drunk women are not typically normal nice guys involved in a messy communication issue of mistaken consent or female regret. They are deliberately seeking out women in vulnerable positions so they can act out feelings of anger.

So why bother with posters and media campaigns?

http://journals.cluteonline.com/index.php/CIER/article/viewFile/1201/1185

"Rather than focusing prevention efforts on the rapists, it would seem far more effective to focus those efforts on the far more numerous bystanders – men and women who are part of the social and cultural milieu in which rapes are spawned and who can be mobilized to identify perpetrators and intervene in high-risk situations."

Huh. I'll have to read through these, but I stand corrected I guess.

No, it's not a myth. Who's telling them it's rape? Nobody I know. I didn't know because I never heard it called rape. You could tell from the way everyone talks, the way media talks about it. They always call it "having sex" not "rape". So unless "this is rape" is some special kept man secret, it can't be a myth that nobody knows.

I've read that twitter post multiple times and it still doesn't make any goddamn sense to me. I can only conclude that reading it has actually made me more stupid

Well, look, is there some wisdom about having 'common sense' when it comes to personal safety? Sure there is. But considering that most rapists will be someone you know then most 'common sense' goes out the window.

And besides, the post is trying to point out that 'common sense' might be able to save you personally, but it doesn't fix the core problem. Like, for example, a gay guy learning self-defense might prevent him from being gay-bashed, but that hasn't actually fixed the problem has it? It saved HIM, sure, but a person willing to hurt someone for being gay isn't just going to give up because some gay dude fought him off.

Will telling that person to not hurt gay people going to work? Probably not. But the only way things will change is by taking the spotlight off 'common sense' and bring to light the idea that no 'common sense' should ever have to include 'how not to get beaten up for having a boyfriend'.

I don't think that's a very even comparison, though? Because a gay man getting attacked for being gay has a root cause in homophobia, working to eliminate (though I doubt it will ever be 100% eliminated) will stop that.

Telling people to stop raping doesn't actually effect the serial rapists who don't actually give a fuck, because they enjoy the control. It's rooted in something different then homophobia is.

You don't think that a desire to rape women isn't rooted in sexism? It's a much better comparison than comparing rape to stealing, that's for fucking sure.

And sure, trying to change attitudes towards womena and consent won't stop the real scumbags of society, but since when is that a good reason to not do something? Telling people not to murder won't stop serial killers, right?

For some people, yes, but I don't think that's the only reason, or else you'd never hear about young boys/men getting raped.

You're right; telling people not to murder doesn't stop serial killers, because they literally don't care.

Actually, you'd be surprised. People laugh off women raping boys/men because haha, boys never say no and women can't have sexual power over males, that's silly!

And boys/men who are raped by other men are shamed because that's a 'womans' crime and is sometimes even done so a man can have power over another man and make him his 'bitch'.

Is it the only reason that people rape? Of course not. Is it a powerful reason and a major source of people dimissing rape? Fuck yes.

da

I'd say the cultural factors are similar, though. Working against the enabling aspect of society.

Fun story about "common sense" is that when it comes to trying to protect children, "common sense" actually puts them in more danger. The best example I can think of is that letting a kid walk home is often safer than insisting they get a ride from a teacher, because guess which situation is more likely to result in them getting molested or assaulted?

I'm not saying common sense is completely useless, but I can see why some people have such a gut reaction against it. I mean, my mom was paranoid as all fuck when I was a child, but looking back, some of the things she did in her desperation to protect me actually put me in even more danger (and that's before going into the indirect costs of her paranoia when I wasn't in danger, i.e. no after school activities, no friends over, no going over to friend's houses, no getting a job, etc etc). I try to take the rational approach in all things in life, but sometimes that means having to stop myself from screaming SHUT UP at people who tie themselves up so strongly in "common sense measures against sexual assault" because of how not sensible they really are.

Wait, that isn't even true. It doesn't work that way. Him raping "you" isn't going to stop him from raping "that other girl" next.

That's not how I interpret the post. To me, it's saying that there's pretty much no such thing as preventing rape through self-defense or precaution, there's only redirecting it to another person who is less well-protected. The only true rape prevention is education and imprisonment. Posts like that aren't trying to say that no one should be careful and alert and do their best not to be raped, they're saying that individual precaution doesn't stop kids from turning into predators, doesn't stop people from focusing on what the victim was doing instead of the criminal who broke the law, and doesn't even get rapists off the streets. It's an attempt to make people stop criticizing individuals for the crime committed against them and criticize the society in which such a crime so often goes unprosecuted, unconvicted, and generally unaddressed.

It's saying our whole concept of what "rape prevention" actually requires in order to be successful on a significant level is flawed. At least, that's how I see it.

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[ SECRET POST #2535 ]

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