[ SECRET POST #2609 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2609 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 076 secrets from Secret Submission Post #372.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

This entry was on the front page the other day

Gay Sex is All Wrong in Fanfic (http://reverie-indigo.livejournal.com/5686.html)

And I found myself really irritated by it. I've seen stuff like this time and time again; enlightened male comes in and tells everyone how incorrectly they're writing about penises.

I wish people like this would consider who they're directing these rants towards. Typically fic writers are young girls who aren't necessarily sexually active, but are doing this for fun. And that's cool! It's awesome that fandom provides a "safe place" for girls to explore topics like sexuality without any adverse effects.

But has it ever occurred to these people that the fics are not written for you, but instead for the authors own enjoyment?

And then there's this sort of bullshit in the comments:
"What I'm wondering now is, haven't these women ever given a blow job?"

Yeah, how dare people write about sex when they haven't done it in real life or have no interest whatsoever.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

My favorite part of this is his "warning"

Warning: generalizations are used liberally below. Mentally preface all statements with "in general" and don't yell at me.

Then he goes on to immediately make sweeping statements like

Gay sex in fanfic is all wrong.

But wait! You can't yell at him about any of his statements because he put a warning up! Not even going into all the other irritating stuff about this 'essay', I hate shit like this. If you want people to think you're making generalizations and that you in fact realize not everyone does this then write it that way. He's trying to get people upset while simultaneously negating and brushing off that upset. It's fucking annoying and makes me not take anything he has to say seriously or for that matter not even want to read the rest of his shit.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

I lied. I went back and read some of it and the entire thing annoys me. Because yeah, we're not writing this for his particular enjoyment. He seems amazingly oblivious as to why things are catered to him in every sphere - gay sex is being written about so it should automatically be exactly what he prefers and has experienced!

But what annoys me even greater is the people in the comments thanking him because women have so few real life accurate resources for their porn! And few, they were really afraid they had gotten stuff wrong but it turns out they can breath easy because one gay dude thinks the way they wrote their sex is okay. Crisis averted!

I've seen stuff like this before. A gay dude walks into fandom out and proud and the fangirls flock to him as some sort of can do no wrong guru. There's one in every fandom, it seems.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT
Exactly! That is my problem. This stuff isn't written to be catered to him, fandom is pretty much the one place where we can write whatever the hell we want.
Not to mention that his experiences=/= everyone elses experiences. Just because he doesn't like teeth doesn't mean other has.

SIGHS.

Re: SA

[cbrachyrhynchos]

At what point after dozens, hundred, or thousands of people have read your inaccurate, skeevy, and stereotype-loaded porn do the members of the oppressed (in some cases violently so) groups you're writing about get an opportunity to comment?

And, "walks into fandom?" We're already here, have been from the start.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you've encountered the type of fandom creature that I'm talking about. Of course there are fandom people from all demographics in fandom.

And you want to complain about inaccurate, skeevy, and stereotype-loaded porn and comment on it? Go for it! But don't make general sweeping statements that "all fic is wrong" and that women are inexperienced with male anatomy and then go on to say that your experience alone is Doing It Right.

Curious, did you read the link or just react to my, admittedly over the top emotional, response?

Re: SA

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Yes, I did read the link in question. I found his claims mostly accurate to my experiences, your response not fair to the author in question, and deeply anti-gay in saying that gay men shouldn't talk about how people write gay sex.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't say gay men shouldn't talk about how people write gay sex, and that's not what I mean. I'm sorry you read it that way. What I think is no individual has the right to come into a fandom space and tell the entirety of it that they are doing it wrong because of their own experience. He had a few valid points, but his overall approach and attitude ruined any credit he may have had.

But if you agreed with the author and found no problems with his piece then obviously we are just two individuals who will not agree on this point.

Re: SA

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Perhaps his comments on fanfic should be read as "admittedly over the top emotional" as well. Sure, I think he's exaggerating a bit, but it's his personal livejournal, so he's allowed some license to rant.

I'm not going to do a content analysis to say how often one-two-three preparation and orgasm in three strokes appears in fanfic.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[starphotographs]

Yeah, I always thought it was dumb that people singled out fanfic in particular for those accusations, or why it's even that much of a problem in the first place.

Sex in porn is frequently unrealistic, water is wet, sky is blue, grass is green but gets all brown and crunchy if it's dead, life goes on roughly as expected.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

This. There's just as much hilariously bad hetero porn.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Oh but have you ever read published gay erotica? I did once... never again. Well, maybe if I'm ever in need of a good laugh.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Porn doesn't have to be realistic, I agree. But I'm confused as to how that means one guy with actual experience can't talk about what is so often gotten horribly wrong - because a lot of fanfic authors do want to be realistic and just don't realize what they get wrong.

I also would not say fandom is a "safe space" - that's a very misguided attitude. As a way to express sexuality, I get it. But I don't see it as much different from a teenage guy watching a lot of interesting, kinky porn. He's also "expressing his sexuality" - should a woman be able to tell him that a lot of the stuff these porn films do is unrealistic?

I didn't read the article posted, however, and would agree in theory with you that the porn in question is written most likely for the author's own enjoyment, and it's okay to get things wrong. But I also have no problem with someone providing actual facts and reference?

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

The link is less an article and more an opinion piece. Includes such highlights as "men aren't biters," "gay men don't like preparation," "the head of the penis/prostate isn't that sensitive", and "men don't come as fast as fics think." (The last one of which is very LOL, since various studies show 75% of men ejaculate within 3 minutes.)

It's mostly wrong or opinions. So...not facts or references. We have other sources for those, such as Minotaur.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

men don't come as fast as fics think.

Gay men don't know how long a woman needs a man to last...

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Indeed they don't. I also think the "gay men don't like preparation, why is it so common" thing is based on a fundamental lack of understanding about how painful sex can be for vagina-possessing people when there isn't enough lube involved. The misconceptions in slash fic are probably there for a reason.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Well, I don't like preparation as he describes it. I enjoy being fingered as part of the whole shebang, but the whole thing of ritualistically counting fingers doesn't do anything for me. One or two are better than three in terms of reach and flexibility. Getting relaxed and comfortable with the person is a bit more important.

He's also correct on sexual duration: more than three tugs, optionally fast, preferably longer if you consider non-penetrative acts as part of the whole thing. Can't say anything about the biting thing.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

That's irritating as hell, considering the points he makes about anything other than actual, existing anatomy are very variable. For me personally, he's mostly wrong. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Mostly my take away from that was that he needs to read better fic.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[ariakas]

Anyway, fanfic sex scenes are usually 90% preparation and at most 10% the main event, whereas I think a sex scene written by a man would have much greater emphasis on the coupling.

What's kind of hilarious is that I've read rants/essays by gay men to tell straight women "how it really is" that say the opposite of pretty much everything he's saying. Especially this part. That sex without preparation was agonizing and that far too many fanfics (as I recall the gentleman in question avoided the "all" and "99.9%" hyperbole, good on him) had no preparation whatsoever - men just jammed it in - and that this was completely unrealistic.

The head of the male penis has virtually no sensitivity whatsoever. It's the cluster of nerves below the head on the underside where most of the sensation is. Very often you'll see in fanfic someone tonguing the slit producing a strong positive reaction. No. In fact this is very unpleasant.

This is just hilariously wrong. I've had multiple male sexual partners say the exact opposite - going so far as to ask for most attention be paid to the head when sucking it, and yes, even precisely the tongue in the slit thing. I don't know if it's a cut versus uncut phenomenon, but unless he's trying so say gay dudes have different cocks than straight dudes, he's comically off base with this. ...Which is fine, I've known many women to "love" things I hate wrt my genitals, and "hate" many things I love, so I assume this just means men too aren't a monolith... I'm just curious as to why he's so insistent that every man on earth is exactly like him.

...Annnnnnd the second comment on that same page is by another gay man telling him he's wrong and it isn't the same for him. Oh irony.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[cbrachyrhynchos]

It's a YMMV thing. Plenty of lube, foreplay, a gentle insertion, and a slow start to let me adjust are usually all I need for a reasonably sized prick (biological or technological). Ritualistically going through a finger count usually isn't necessary for me.

I'm either "open for business" or I'm not. If I'm not, well, I'm not in the right headspace and a finger won't get me there. I disagree with him in that I don't find it remotely painful if I'm in the right headspace and the other person isn't hitting me wrong. It's like plugging into a cosmic light socket.

But, receiving anal sex is more a learned skill than some state of dilation achieved mostly by the top's diligent efforts at keeping track of how many fingers he's using.

And his followup comment that assuming that all men need that level of preparation every time we bottom is both inaccurate and limits the kind of scenes you can write is certainly spot on.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[ariakas]

I'm either "open for business" or I'm not. If I'm not, well, I'm not in the right headspace and a finger won't get me there.

That actually sounds an awful lot like vaginal sex. If you're ready and you want it, you're good to go with almost no prep, if you're not all the finger banging in the world won't help.

Thank you for the insight!

According to another dude on f!s his "the head isn't sensitive" experience is almost certainly a cut versus uncut phenomenon. I've been with almost exclusively uncut men (an accident of geography, not bias on my part), whereas he suspects this guy is cut. Would you agree?

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I don't have enough experience with uncut men to compare. Some guys like this, some guys like that. The weather changes minute by minute.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

What I like is that he assumes no ladies writing fic could be writing from experience. Because, you know, anal sex is only a thing gay dudes do.

Re: Irritating Attitudes in Fandom

[(Anonymous)]

It's kind of different on a biological level because women don't have a prostate but it's my understanding that a woman's G spot is similarly positioned and can give a woman pleasure while doing anal.

Does anybody have experience with it? What's it like? I'm a woman but I'm not into penetration at all myself (it's painful to insert anything for me so it's clitoral stimulation or nothing).