fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2636 ]

[ SECRET POST #2636 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2636 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Pinocchio]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Okay I'm probably going to annoy people but, am I the only one who gets annoyed when people misuse the "stan" label and accuse people of being stans because of a difference of opinion rather than being a nutty over-obsessive/defensive fan?

Example

Person A: Harry Potter was such shit, [other book] was so much better in because [reasons].
Person B: Well Harry Potter did have it's problems but I felt like it was good and interesting in other ways. I thought it was an enjoyable story and liked the characters
Person A: Can you believe the stans in this thread?

Stuff like this annoys me. Person B is not being a stan by disagreeing and pointing out that Harry Potter had its strong points. Just because someone doesn't automatically agree when you express dislike of something doesn't make them a stan.

Here's an example of a stan in action.

Person A: I can understand liking or being interested in the character but I can't understand how people can excuse Mother Gothel's actions in Tangled. She was controlling and abusive and she kidnapped Rapunzel just because she wanted to stay young. Their relationship was very abusive.
Person B: You're so stupid. She grew to love Rapunzel and was just trying to keep her safe. They were just fine until Flynn came along. Not to mention the Queen did steal her flower. You're just a misogynist and its grossing me out, fuck off!
Person A: Are you serious?

Person B in this situation is being stan because they're the ones attacking Person A in this situation rather than having a pleasant disagreement. Person A might have worded their disagreement a bit strongly but Person B comes in and is aggressive about proving their opinion AND they dismiss person A's stated reasons, telling person A that the 'real' reason that they dislike the character is just because they hate women.

People calling people Stans because they disagreed with their opinion or just state a different one annoy me. Not only is it misusing the word but it's pretty much calling people who disagree 'crazy overs-defensive fans'. A person is not a stan because they disagree with you, a person is a stan when they flip out at someone having a differing opinion and feel the need to rush to defend it and attack the person with the different opinion. It's not always like the examples I gave but I tend to know a misuse of it when I see it.

Sorry I probably sound whiny and stuff but I've just been thinking about this whenever I see arguments where people are accused of being 'stans'.
Anybody else have silly pet peeves about words?

I'm sure you're not the only one who feels that way - but part of the issue [imo] is that what comes across as defensive/obsessed to one person, may not read that way to someone else. So that makes things a bit more grey.

People mess up the meaning to specific insults all the time (see troll, sjw, and neckbeard), I've just accepted the original meaning is lost and I can't do anything about it.

That being said, I *hate* that literally can also mean figuratively.

Edited 2014-03-23 00:25 (UTC)

I have reluctantly come to accept the literally instead of figuratively mistake, but I will never give up the war on the meaning of "Unique". You cannot have "a bit unique" or "slightly unique" or "a little uniquely". NEVER!!!

And while we are at it, it is "champing at the bit" not "chomping".

Listen to the Fox!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS8dBpQmt7A

I hear you on the unique bit. I had an English teacher who'd made that mistake a lot and it was the absolute worst.

Also thank you for the link, nonny! It made me giggle.

I will never accept that "literally" can mean "figuratively." NEVERRRRRR.

How do you feel on ultimate moving from final to best thing eva!!!one!?

I am fine with "ultimate" changing meaning. It's just the word "literally" that I'm hung up on.

Me neither.

Unless you are referring to a group of nations or peoples in central Asia you shouldn't be throwing the word Stan around anyway. However, in fandom I like it when someone is prepared to stand up and call another poster a Stan. It handily flags to me that their posts can be safely ignored, because they are in fact a twat. Its the new Godwin. First person to resort to calling their opponent a Stan in a non-Central Asian context loses the argument and their point of view is automatically invalid, the other person wins (regardless of how deranged they sound.

Why does the term bother you so much? It frankly seems entirely inoffensive, and nowhere near worth comparing to Nazi analogies

Because it is a term devoid of rational criticism and just a short way of saying "shut up, I don't like your views". It is something stupid people scream when they don't know any other way of ending a conversation, just like how the Godwinated One is used in political blogs. Plus Stans is properly referring to the peoples and geographic entities of central Asia. I realise it comes from a different linguistic derivation, but it has coincided with a pre-existing term and it sullies a pre-existing use with unpleasant connotations due to the prejudicial way the fandom-context use is articulated.

I think 'stans' in the Central Asian usage is more of a slang term than anything else anyway, so it's not like it's some deeply important and fundamental thing that is being ruined. You can just say, you know, "Central Asia" or whatever instead.

And... yeah, people use the term in dumb ways sometimes. But that's no reason to put it on the Godwin level. There is such a thing as an obsessed fan and it's an amusing term for them, and stupid people are going to be stupid no matter what slang terms there are. If I call myself a stan, or refer to the existence of stans in an abstract sense, I don't think that's comparable to the discussion-ending use of the term you mention.

...what...what does stan meaning a crazy fan have to do with central Asia? I thought the term came from a song by Eminem about a crazy fan named stan?

The fan term 'stan' does come from the Eminem song. There is also an unrelated usage of the term as a name for one of a group of nations in central Asia, the names of which all end in -stan: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and sometimes Afghanistan. AYRT (for reasons known only to them) has decided that this usage is the only acceptable usage of the term stan.

Contraction of Stanley, originally a surname. Stanley as a name in common English-speaking usage derives from the old English Stan Leigh meaning Stoney Meadow. A fascinating alternative usage, from Spanish speaking usage is as an English corruption of the Spanish Esteban, which in turn is a corruption of Stephen. However, as fascinating as all this is the different linguistic root has not been disputed in this case, merely the convergent usage which leads it to be a negative usage of an identical neutral pre-existing term for a grouping of lands or peoples.

Re: The only usage that matters

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: The only usage that matters

lunabee34 - 2014-03-23 01:57 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:19 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:33 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:36 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:59 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 02:04 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 03:28 (UTC) - Expand

More precisely it is the peoples who collectively are considered the Stans to whom it is offensive. Stan means "land of" or occasionally (depending on context) "person-of", so Tajikistan -for example- is The Land of the Tajiks. The fandom use therefore denigrates the peoples of central Asia and is therefore leads to a prejudicial and negative use of the term. You cannot co-opt a pre-existing term and use it in a new denigratory context without it being offensive to a set of peoples who it previously defined a neutral context.

I am not an expert on the region, but surely the people of the region are the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazahks, the Krygyz, and the Turkmens (along with the ethnic minorities in the region and other cultures etc)? In fact it kind of seems that using the term '-stans' as a blanket term for those people is kind of strange already from the start - it comes from the names for their countries, not for their peoples. I have a really hard time believing that the usage of the term stan as an insult for obsessed fans is insulting in any way to an Uzbek or a Kazakh.

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:03 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 03:26 (UTC) - Expand

(reply from suspended user)

Stan is a fucking name. And yes you can. It is in no way related to whatever the racial term is. This isn't even one of those murky, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You know EXACTLY where that term comes from (an Eminem video) and you know it means a crazy fan and nothing at all racial.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard. Hell, those people are taking a pre-existing name and turning it into something derogatory. Should all guys named Stan be ostracized for their racism?

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:25 (UTC) - Expand

Wow, I thought you were joking with your first comment. There is a completely unrelated context to the origin of the fandom use of "stan" (as they said, Eninem's song "Stan"). If anything, the only pre-existing thing it could be said to denigrate is people in fandom actually named Stanley.

Yo, Sasha, I loved you as Pirelli in Sweeney Todd. <3

TBH I don't really care because I think it's a funny term.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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