fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2636 ]

[ SECRET POST #2636 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2636 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Pinocchio]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #377.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Unless you are referring to a group of nations or peoples in central Asia you shouldn't be throwing the word Stan around anyway. However, in fandom I like it when someone is prepared to stand up and call another poster a Stan. It handily flags to me that their posts can be safely ignored, because they are in fact a twat. Its the new Godwin. First person to resort to calling their opponent a Stan in a non-Central Asian context loses the argument and their point of view is automatically invalid, the other person wins (regardless of how deranged they sound.

Why does the term bother you so much? It frankly seems entirely inoffensive, and nowhere near worth comparing to Nazi analogies

Because it is a term devoid of rational criticism and just a short way of saying "shut up, I don't like your views". It is something stupid people scream when they don't know any other way of ending a conversation, just like how the Godwinated One is used in political blogs. Plus Stans is properly referring to the peoples and geographic entities of central Asia. I realise it comes from a different linguistic derivation, but it has coincided with a pre-existing term and it sullies a pre-existing use with unpleasant connotations due to the prejudicial way the fandom-context use is articulated.

I think 'stans' in the Central Asian usage is more of a slang term than anything else anyway, so it's not like it's some deeply important and fundamental thing that is being ruined. You can just say, you know, "Central Asia" or whatever instead.

And... yeah, people use the term in dumb ways sometimes. But that's no reason to put it on the Godwin level. There is such a thing as an obsessed fan and it's an amusing term for them, and stupid people are going to be stupid no matter what slang terms there are. If I call myself a stan, or refer to the existence of stans in an abstract sense, I don't think that's comparable to the discussion-ending use of the term you mention.

...what...what does stan meaning a crazy fan have to do with central Asia? I thought the term came from a song by Eminem about a crazy fan named stan?

The fan term 'stan' does come from the Eminem song. There is also an unrelated usage of the term as a name for one of a group of nations in central Asia, the names of which all end in -stan: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and sometimes Afghanistan. AYRT (for reasons known only to them) has decided that this usage is the only acceptable usage of the term stan.

Contraction of Stanley, originally a surname. Stanley as a name in common English-speaking usage derives from the old English Stan Leigh meaning Stoney Meadow. A fascinating alternative usage, from Spanish speaking usage is as an English corruption of the Spanish Esteban, which in turn is a corruption of Stephen. However, as fascinating as all this is the different linguistic root has not been disputed in this case, merely the convergent usage which leads it to be a negative usage of an identical neutral pre-existing term for a grouping of lands or peoples.

Thank you, Mr. Data, that will be all. *mutters under breath*

Re: The only usage that matters

lunabee34 - 2014-03-23 01:57 (UTC) - Expand

joke \jōk\ something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:33 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:36 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 01:59 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 02:04 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 03:28 (UTC) - Expand

More precisely it is the peoples who collectively are considered the Stans to whom it is offensive. Stan means "land of" or occasionally (depending on context) "person-of", so Tajikistan -for example- is The Land of the Tajiks. The fandom use therefore denigrates the peoples of central Asia and is therefore leads to a prejudicial and negative use of the term. You cannot co-opt a pre-existing term and use it in a new denigratory context without it being offensive to a set of peoples who it previously defined a neutral context.

I am not an expert on the region, but surely the people of the region are the Uzbeks, the Tajiks, the Kazahks, the Krygyz, and the Turkmens (along with the ethnic minorities in the region and other cultures etc)? In fact it kind of seems that using the term '-stans' as a blanket term for those people is kind of strange already from the start - it comes from the names for their countries, not for their peoples. I have a really hard time believing that the usage of the term stan as an insult for obsessed fans is insulting in any way to an Uzbek or a Kazakh.

The usage does depend on context this is true, however yes it can be seen as insulting to members of those peoples (as there is a national-political identity issue attached to it as well as the ethnic one) to use it the way fandom does.

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 03:26 (UTC) - Expand

(reply from suspended user)

Stan is a fucking name. And yes you can. It is in no way related to whatever the racial term is. This isn't even one of those murky, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You know EXACTLY where that term comes from (an Eminem video) and you know it means a crazy fan and nothing at all racial.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard. Hell, those people are taking a pre-existing name and turning it into something derogatory. Should all guys named Stan be ostracized for their racism?

No. A person named Stan is using it in a neutral way as their name. However usage which is inherently negative, as in the derogatory term for an obsessed fan ought to be avoid due to it only being able to be used as a negative. The fannish usage, incidentally, is technically just as insulting to people named Stan as it is to peoples from the Stans; although I admit that few people named Stan will give it enough thought to realize that they ought to be offended. We probably could find someone named Stan who is offended by that use, and that in itself ought to be reason enough not to use a word that is a proper name as an insult. It has a disproportionate effect on those individuals and can, in cases where the name-as-insult is adopted in the mainstream, lead to the proper name itself dropping out of usage (consider the name "Fanny" for example and its vanishing after it was adopted in the UK as a colloquialism for a certain part of women's anatomy).

Wow, I thought you were joking with your first comment. There is a completely unrelated context to the origin of the fandom use of "stan" (as they said, Eninem's song "Stan"). If anything, the only pre-existing thing it could be said to denigrate is people in fandom actually named Stanley.

The convergent usage is covered, inbrief, in comments upthread. Your latter point regarding names is also covered upthread.

My position that it admittedly does also serve a shorthand for identifying twats who have no further arguments other than merely disliking another's position on a character stands however.

wow, that is some tumblr level insanity right there. I'm impressed.

Better. I suspect Tumblr's lawyers are not too fond of your usage of their intellectual property as insult, but that is one for the corporate studies folk to fight over.

+1

It's always nice to see from fresh material around here. A+, much better then radfem!anon and others of their ilk. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 02:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com - 2014-03-23 04:11 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

(Anonymous) - 2014-03-23 04:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Pet peeve about use of the word "stan"

mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com - 2014-03-23 04:22 (UTC) - Expand

Can you link us to a specific example of the fandom usage actually converging with the socio-geographical usage? They are two separate things and most people can determine which definition is meant from the context it is being used. Unless, perhaps, we're talking about obsessive fans of the work of Timur Bekmambetov...?!

Asked and answered.

Yo, Sasha, I loved you as Pirelli in Sweeney Todd. <3

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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6/10

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