[ SECRET POST #2704 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2704 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #386.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kallanda_lee]

No, I don't think he would be.

I mean, even if he'd verbally consent, there's no way to know if he would consider it an order or not. He lets Pierce beat him while he could snap his neck if he wanted to.

Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

Worst fucking thing about the "wipe him" scene, I think.

He could easily take out every single person in that room, including the Strike Team, without breaking a sweat. Instead he lets Pierce slap him across the face and just takes the damn bite block when it's presented to him.

It's not often a movie makes me feel physically ill. That scene succeeded.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[kallanda_lee]

It broke my heart. But on the other hand, I thought it was a really great scene movie-wise, because it establishes Bucky as a victim rather than a heartless killer.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

it establishes Bucky as a victim rather than a heartless killer.

It is ridiculous how many people seem to be missing that particular point. How you could possibly sit through that scene and NOT understand that he's not willfully evil, I really can't figure out.

And, yes. I agree it was a great scene. Doesn't change the fact that it makes me ill. :(

Re: AYRT

[kallanda_lee]

I guess it would be y-the sort of people who just want to see action flicks where the good guys shoot the bad guys - but, then they're barking up the wrong tree with Marvel, imho.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

He doesn't really know any better. He's...well, mostly a blank slate. (All he knows to do is follow orders.)

But at the same time he must think he's doing the right thing because of the way Pierce talked to him; he still somehow was lead to believe that he was being helpful and good, so maybe some deep part of Bucky recognized and held onto that when he didn't know anything else. So even if he could rebel (which he probably wouldn't do anyway, because he's been broken so badly), he might not.

This entire movie was just massively depressing and messed up.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Not saying he should have rebelled. It made me ill since he didn't because he couldn't, psychologically-speaking.

Plus the screams*. Again, pain. He knows there is going to be pain. He flinches when the restraints snap into place, but he's a passive party because in his fucked up, brainwashed, PTSD state he has no idea that he can do anything different.

*Part of me wants to know if that was Sebastian Stan, or if they were dubbed it.

Re: AYRT

[elaminator]

Oh, yea, I got ya. I didn't think you were saying he should have, just that he couldn't. Which is obviously what makes that scene so terrible - he has no choice in the matter.

They might've been dubbed in later? (I imagine they were Stan, though.) But...who knows, either way they're heartbreaking. I hope there's plenty of discussion about that scene on the commentary, or maybe in a special feature or something.

AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I would accept Sebastian Stan talking about all of his Bucky feels, period. Because if what we've heard so far is correct, he's pretty much playing it in the exact way I thought it should be played, if The Winter Soldier was adapted to the MCU Bucky/Steve dynamic.

I also really, really, really want a special feature talking about the fight choreography for the elevator scene.

Re: AYRT

[elaminator]

I don't think they would release a DVD without some sort of Bucky feature featuring Stan, because even if he isn't the main antagonist he's part of what drives Steve in this film, and will continue to from here on out. So he's certainly important and I'm sure they know people are interested, too.

I want features for all the fight scenes, lol. The knife fight especially, but I'd love to see Nat and Bucky's fight too, and then the elevator and maybe bits of the ship at the first of the film... I just loved the action in this movie so damn much and could pretty much gleefully watch it all day.

Re: AYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I've ranted about it every day since April 9th.

Re: AYRT

[elaminator]

I have talked about it every day since I saw it too, which is ridiculous. The majority of my fs comments have been about it. Almost all the fic I've read since then has been Captain America. Marvel should be paying us for this shit. (Granted, no one probably went to see the movie solely because of me, but I still want money.)

Not that talking about Cap isn't its own reward, mind.

Re: AYRT

[kallanda_lee]

The whole scene was him basically accepting both psychological and physical pain willingly. Basically he's been utterly broken and manipulated.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. That scene made me feel very uncomfortable. I began to think, well, what else have they done to him? look at that control and his acquiescence. What abuses could they have done? They just leave him there shirtless...And then I felt sick :[

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

I've said this before and I'll say this again, but I'm absolutely shocked at the small number of non-con fics that this movie has spawned, because the source material makes it seem...not far fetched from reality. Maybe it didn't happen, but it could've, very easily, and no one would've been around to stop it. (And frankly, Rumlow was giving Bucky so damn questionable looks.)

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, the fics that ARE in the Rumlow/Bucky tag on Ao3 are all disturbing as hell and incredibly well-written.

And I'm currently working on a fic that's going to eventually cover all the horrific ways he was abused, including sexually, because I think it needs to exist.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

I'm sure if there were Rumlow/Bucky fics on AO3 they would be excellent and dirty-bad-wrong and disgusting just as they should be. (Not that I would read any such fic, though....

....


....)

You just reminded me I haven't checked the Cap section for a few days. Thanks for that.... And any future fic you might write.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

There are three or four. Including one with the excellent line "Rumlow breaks entire teams in one him" o.O;


Hee! I promised myself that I wouldn't write Bucky fic until we knew what happened to him. Two months later I have a finished 20k word fic and another one in the works that's likely going to hit 40-50k)

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

I don't remember that particular line... Or wouldn't, even had I read these fics. But obviously I did not. Obviously.

Ugh, I almost want every Cap fic to be 40 or 50k, if it wasn't for the fact I would literally do nothing else. Bless you.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

:D It makes me feel a bit weird that I remember it, to be honest.

I would feel better about my fics if the long ones didn't all involve horrible torture, PTSD and emotional baggage, regardless of fandom. Plus I've realized I have no idea how to give the current one a happy ending. Like…no idea whatsoever. But thank you for the blessing! <3

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[kallanda_lee]

I think the lack of non-con fics is because the idea of writing them makes a lot of people uncomfortable, even if it's just fiction, as proven by this thread. I've been thinking of writing one, but I'm not quite sure I could.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

In a way I can see that (I know I couldn't write it, even if I wasn't a terrible author) and it makes perfect sense to me, except... Fandom loves non-con. It's kind of everywhere, even if you don't want to see it. So this just seemed an odd place for people to withhold their interest in it or whatever, but... I do feel like maybe people are so preoccupied with Steve/Bucky that they just write that instead, especially if they get to make him angst then make him happy again. Anyone and everyone should want Bucky to be happy at this point.

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

Non-con with a guy that knows what he's doing is different, I think, than non-con with what is basically a puppet. There's no biting or clawing or fighting back with the Winter Soldier. There's just…acceptance. I feel like they could beat him, cut him open and fuck him with one of Rumlow's painsticks, and he'd just take it all if that's what he was told to do.

Which is much more horrifying that standard non-con.

(I personally am rather bemused that the kink for the fandom seems to be metal arm fisting. Can't say that's what I was expecting)

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[elaminator]

I feel like they could beat him, cut him open and fuck him with one of Rumlow's painsticks, and he'd just take it all if that's what he was told to do.

...Well...you have a point because I cringed reading this. On one hand I can see how people could think, "At least he's not fully aware of what's going on", but...that fact itself is terrifying, and it's not like he wouldn't eventually become aware of it when he got his memories back. Holy fuck this canon is screwed up.

(I know! I feel like half the porn I've seen has included metal fisting. This was not what I expected either, but the metal arm IS hot. I'm not a huge fisting fan myself, but I get the fascination with the arm.)

Re: Bit OT. Ok, lot OT.

[(Anonymous)]

"At least he's not fully aware of what's going on",

I'm not sure he's not aware, though. He both screams in pain when Steve breaks his arm, and exhibits genuine fear when he's pinned. Which means, regardless of what he forgets he's aware in the moment.

The chair, as well. Sure, he's somewhat bestial in his reactions, but there's no reason for him to be breathing that hard BEFORE the damnable thing turns on, unless he knows it's going to hurt him. He's also obviously used to the routine, given that he took the bite block as soon as it was presented.

Holy fuck this canon is screwed up.

The Winter Soldier part of it is basically psychological horror, when you get down to it.