[ SECRET POST #2721 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2721 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 084 secrets from Secret Submission Post #389.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[donutsweeper]

This is my favourite version of HOUND though, Ian Hart as Watson is a delight.

[dreemyweird]

Oh my God, your favourite! I'm weirdly happy to have found someone who loves it, even though I do prefer different versions myself (for a variety of reasons, one of which is that I'm angry at the Roxburgh version for replacing Murder Rooms. I'm shallow, period).

I think it gets much undeserved hate, mostly because it went for a darker and more troubled Holmes&Watson dynamics. It saddens me that people think that more problems=less friendship.

[donutsweeper]

It's a very different dynamic, true. But fairly faithful to where they were in relation to one another in that period of their partnership (or I like to think anyway). It's an unusual case for them- Holmes is absent for the majority of it and thus lying to Watson in what Watson's role is. The writers also chose to make it even more violent than ACD wrote it, with Watson getting shot and then having to save Holmes' life, but it led to such a wonderful scene where they discuss their feelings without actually saying anything.

(Sorry, I have a tendency to prattle on about this version. I do apologize.)

[(Anonymous)]

DA

The writers also chose to make it even more violent than ACD wrote it, with Watson getting shot and then having to save Holmes' life, but it led to such a wonderful scene where they discuss their feelings without actually saying anything.

So, they threw a little flavour of Three Garridebs into HOUN? I could go with that. Though, admittedly, that might be the h/c fan in me talking -_-;

[donutsweeper]

Yes, exactly. Holmes' reaction to Watson getting shot *sighs happily*

While there's no "Worth the wound" there is some lovely interaction then and directly afterwards on the moors.

[dreemyweird]

Oh, and THIS. I'm such a hopeless sucker for friendshippy h/c, this version makes me like it even despite my being a hardcore MR fan.

[donutsweeper]

I love the discussion on the train on the way back to London, Holmes is oh so carefully apologizing to Watson for how things played out and having to lie to him while not actually saying he's sorry and Watson is in pain (a combination of physical and mental most likely) and tetchy and doesn't roll over but accepts the spirit of the apology while not absolving Holmes of the wrongs he did.

[dreemyweird]

I feel like I need to rewatch it asap.

Btw, I said I thought that the H&W dynamics in this film was purely due to Watson's being different from his canonical self, but I now remember Holmes' role being different, too. I don't imagine the original Holmes felt guilty for doing what he did. It was what his work required, and he's a professional above many other things. I never judged him for it, either, and I don't actually like the readings of HOUN that depict this case as a breach of trust.

In the Roxburgh!Hound, though, I feel that - not the character of Holmes is different, but the circumstances are. The heroes are taken out of ACD's just and good world and thrown into a universe where the actions that were okay in the Canon lead to big-time screw ups. This is why Holmes is forced to act differently and a part of the reason why Watson isn't that forgiving. Does that make sense to you?

[donutsweeper]

Oh yes, it makes perfect sense. Between Watson and Sir Henry being injured and poor Beryl dead (as opposed to just tied up in the original story), the ending is different enough that the normally accepting and easy-going Watson is not anywhere near as forgiving as usual.

[dreemyweird]

Would you say that this film is basically an attempt to make the canon closer to the real life, or that it is just different from the original stories without being more/less realistic than them?

[donutsweeper]

I think there definitely is a little of an attempt at realism and also of just fleshing out of the characters, like how it added Watson's summation of Holmes' knowledge from STUD to the dinner party (the knowledge of literature - nil, botany - variable, etc). Overall the result was giving a greater scope and depth to the characters, more than is usually found in just one story out of the entire canon.

[dreemyweird]

Well, yeah, I guess that's sort of inevitable with standalone adaptations of Holmes stories. The 3GAR part of it must've been added for the same purpose.

Thank you, it was all very informative. I remember I made a post in GC when I first watched the Roxburgh Hound, but, though the first half of it was about how I was pleasantly surprised by the quality, I was too busy being resentful about MR to analyse this adaptation properly.

ETA: and back then someone told me it was supposed to be a series? But then it got cancelled because of reasons? I'm not sure. Maybe they didn't want to film the whole of the canon, just certain stories. That would make sense.

(oh, and I see I have totally overran this thread. Sorry, OP, if you didn't want to see me here. I can't keep away from SH secrets).

[donutsweeper]

It was supposed to be a series, but I've no idea why that didn't happen. Ian Hart did play Watson again, but Roxburg wasn't Holmes, instead Rupert Everett was Holmes and it was an original story and overall not anywhere near as good.

[dreemyweird]

The anon suggested it might have not been taken well by the audience because any SH series that attempts to adapt the canon is now seen as a rival to the Granada version. Which I think might be the case.

And I have to agree that the Everett thing was blergh.

[dreemyweird]

Np, do go on if you wish! I am a) a devoted Holmesian and b) a person who is known as "the one who constantly posts gigantic pieces of meta about obscure shit", so I have exactly zero problems with prattling.

And I agree with you, too - IMO the Roxburgh HOUN is basically what the Canon would have been like if Watson took Holmes' authority for granted less often and had more issues of his own.

[donutsweeper]

(Well, if you insist.... :D )

One thing I always considered about the ACD stories where that they were Watson's version of what happened. He was Holmes' boswell, not a storyteller. As a result he always most likely strove to paint Holmes in the best light and lessen his own actions and impact on the story. In this HOUN, by nature of it being a story we see play out instead of read his version after the fact, we see much more of Watson's interactions and how he relates to the narrative as a whole.

[dreemyweird]

This makes sense! I guess I've never given much thought to the aspects of the story that tend/need to change when it's being filmed, so I'm glad you said this. Otherwise I would probably fail to notice it for another bazillion years, seeing as I'm normally more of a literature specialist than anything else.

And I do believe that the Roxburgh version does this particular change well, something I cannot say about many other HOUN adaptations.

(Sorry, I just keep agreeing with you, but frankly you seem to know this Hound far better than I and I just find your talking about it fascinating.)

[donutsweeper]

The Granada version is very faithful to the story, as are most of the ones before Jeremy Brett became ill. Watching it play out, instead of reading it, works rather well, although, to be honest, I haven't rewatched it recently. However, as I am primarily a Watson fan, I do like the larger role he plays in the Roxburg/Hart version.

The 1970s Russian version has a very different interplay between Holmes and Watson than most other versions, it's interesting to watch as well. (You can see it subtitled here)

[dreemyweird]

I am normally a Granada fan, and I do love their version of this particular case, but I think they failed to make the change you have described and hence their adaptation fell a little flat. I like other Granada episodes much better than the Hound.

As for the Russian version, I have watched it in Russian (which I both understand and speak), and I've a lot of fondness for it. More than I have for the Granada one, too. In this particular regard (changing the narrative to adapt it to a different medium) they took a completely different route, but I think they were as successful in their endeavour as the Roxburgh version. I feel that to make Watson useful and meaningful, they turned him into a general "guardian figure" and someone who provides moral support and companionship to Sir Henry. (I love the Soviet!Sir Henry&Watson friendship. They are awesome <3)

[donutsweeper]

The Russian version definitely has a different dynamic, but there's a sweetness to that Watson that is rare to see anywhere else, especially as portrayed in the Sir Henry&Watson interactions, I just love them drinking and joking together.

I agree about Granada, some of the adaptations are amazing, but HOUN is not their best (although I do love the scene in the crofters hut where Watson tries the soup Holmes has been subsiding on and comments how awful it is, to which Holmes just grumbles how he knows that, he knows. :)

[(Anonymous)]

I love the Russian version too, both the latest and the older, classic one!

I can even take the unfortunately amateurish subtitles, though I can tell I must be missing some of the nuances of the dialog... Volunteer translators always get my thanks even if the result is not perfect. :D

[dreemyweird]

Coincidentally, I helped to translate the latest Russian SH (proofread an episode), so I'll take your thanks *bows*

Even though it's not like all my corrections made it into the final version of the subtitles >.> Otherwise there would have been fewer weird mistakes. IDK why the main team decided to accept some but to reject others.

IMO the older version is better, seeing as there is no strange Irene Adler romantic plot and no omnipotent Moriarty. Also, the only time W&H box is in the beginning and they do not beat the crap out of each other. But I like the newest Holmes a lot, too, especially the MUSG episode, because Reginald Musgrave is the best. The plots, I find, are unusually good, and so is the chemistry between the protagonists. And BAMF!Watson is the best Watson.

/ramble.

I do regret the quality of the subtitles a lot. They are not awful, but there are certainly things that are not translated well. Maybe one day I'll sit down and correct them, too.

[(Anonymous)]

Ian Hart is the best Watson ever (or, at least, equal best with David Burke)!