[ SECRET POST #2793 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2793 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 036 secrets from Secret Submission Post #399.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/By5Jgnh.png

[(Anonymous)]

I did not know that about Marsters. I don't know how to feel about that.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. I like Spike, and I really loved his protectiveness toward Dawn ... and well, fuck, but this sort of taints that because I can't unsee it.

I get the feeling that this secret was less "I don't get it" than "Here, let me tell yoiu something you probably didn't know."

Thanks for pissing in the pool, OP. :p

[kaijinscendre]

The real question is how long ago did you make this secret??? BTVS ended 11 years ago.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe OP just watched it and had opinions. That happens to me all the time, except I never express them because, well, I know people will ask me why I care about a show that ended eleven years ago.

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if some of the Dawn hate comes from people who watched the show while it ran, versus newcomers? I'm just acting on a hunch. I never minded her, but then, I watched the show years after the series finale, and I was pretty spoiled for Dawn's appearance. I can see it annoying fans who were unprepared and confused for half a season, though. Especially if you factor in the implication that Joyce's brain tumor was caused by her modified memories of Dawn...

I don't understand blaming the actors, though. But then, the one thing I've never understood about TV fandom is why so much emphasis is placed on them. I don't see actors, I see characters being played by actors.

[philstar22]

Wait, where did it imply that Joyce's brain tumor was caused by the modified memories? I never got that from any scene. I honestly have no idea what you are referring to.

[kallanda_lee]

What bothered me about Dawn is that she was very much forced in unnaturally as a character. I mean, it was literally a retcon. She sort of grew on me over time, but I still do not like the way she was introduced, or that she needed to be Buffy's sister.

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if some of the Dawn hate comes from people who watched the show while it ran, versus newcomers? I'm just acting on a hunch. I never minded her, but then, I watched the show years after the series finale, and I was pretty spoiled for Dawn's appearance.

I had the same experience, and Dawn never bothered me either. On the other hand, it was the same for Connor on Angel and I still loathed him, so.... *shrugs*

[heystasa]

I think the difference in experience that comes with watching something as it airs versus marathoning it later on is pretty huge, even if it's rarely acknowledged. Like, say if (general) you were to marathon Buffy without knowing Dawn was coming, you would still have to watch in confusion for a much shorter time compared to the people who watched the season unfold over weeks and months on tv. And you might have only been watching the show as a whole for a couple of weeks, rather than five years, and so your expectations of the show, feelings about the characters, and general sense of the world are way less firmly entrenched.

I feel like this happens a lot in various ways. Like, I quite enjoyed the last few seasons of The Office when I saw the show as a whole a few months ago, but people who had been watching the show for years hated them. And people who are newer to Supernatural enjoy the later seasons more than a lot of people who have been watching from the start.

[darkmanifest]

I remember the cliffhanger that introduced Dawn the first time the episode ever aired and how it blew my entire mind. But what made me so sour wasn't that she existed at all or the explanation behind her (which I found really cool) but that Dawn was such a grating, insufferable pain in the ass as a character. From her first scene with lines to her last, I never stopped wanting to punch her in the mouth. And I was one of the three people who liked Riley, so it's not like I was unforgiving critic. So that's where my hate comes from. If she'd been a less realistic teenager like the rest of the cast, I probably would have loved her.

[fauxkaren]

I LOVE Dawn. And I didn't watch the show while it ran.

so yeah

Maybe when you watched it does have something to do with it?

[gabzillaz]

Disliking Marsters is completely understandable, he's creepy.

I don't know what people have against Michelle, though. Did she do something to annoy the fandom other than playing Dawn?

[(Anonymous)]

The way this is phrased made me think you were saying Michelle Trachtenberg was James Marsters' wife. I was a pretty big BtVS fangirl back in the day, and to think I wouldn't know such a thing... for a few seconds my brain was doing somersaults of WTF and NO WAY, SRLSY?!, OMG.

So thanks, I guess, for making me feel sixteen again. XD

[(Anonymous)]

The show ended in '03, so it's been 11 years, not 7.

I don't recall anyone saying that about MT. I remember some Dawn hate, from some corners, but no more than the other characters got hated on - Spike/James Marsters and Angel/David Boreanaz, to name two.

Where are you seeing the MT hate these days? Tumblr? Doesn't everyone get hated on at one point or another on Tumblr?

Marsters does like them young, that's true. Fortunately, I don't care about the actors, just the characters they played.

[(Anonymous)]

People hate on Marsters? I always figured that everyone's love for Spike extended to his actor? Then again I've never actually been in the fandom.

[philstar22]

I didn't know this about Marsters. He always seemed nice, I've met him at cons, and I really like his politics. This makes me really sad. And creeped out.

But I still like Spike. And if you are going to call Spike creepy you kind of have to call Angel the same thing since Buffy was even younger when he was coming on to her.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't know this. Now I don't like him at all, really skeevy. Thanks a lot anon...

Jesus Christ, people.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't let one anon's slanted portrayal of an actor's life make you hate him. He "met" his wife when she was a high school student? OK. Did he start dating her right then, or did he wait? Either way, as far as I know, they've been married for a few years now and dated for a while before they got married. What exactly about that situation makes him creepy?

And, wait, on top of that, he had a crush on someone? Ooooooh, get out. How terrible. HE WROTE A SONG FOR HER, THAT BASTARD.

[(Anonymous)]

I find it really distressing that there's a bunch of anons renouncing their former love of Marsters over this secret. A handsome older man wrote a kitschy rock song for his pretty costar. Oh, that's definitely pedophilia.

This sort of rising hysteria over what is 'appropriate' makes a mockery of actual impropriety and genuinely creepy shit. I am so very very tired of it all. James Marsters is a nice guy. He wrote a song for a girl who was almost an adult when they met, and was in to her 20s when the show wrapped. We should probably chemically castrate him, you're right. What a monster.

[lunabee34]

I will take this opportunity to let you all know how much I love Dawn. She is one of the few teenagers in the television shows I've watched in my lifetime who has actually behaved like a real teenager. As much as I loved Dawson's Creek, and oh lordy lordy lordy did I, but no teenager ever talked like that or lived independently like that. Even the Scoobies were pushing the boundaries of teenager. Dawn is refreshing and lovely. I will smish her and call her George.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to talk about the actors, just the characters. I loved Spike, later seasons Spike maybe not as much but he was an amusing bad guy and he was amusing on Angel as well.

Dawn really had nothing going for her that made her interesting to me, she mostly just fit into the annoying younger sister trope and that was it. The season 5 plot line was good, but she ceased to have a reason to be there after season 5.

Also thinking back on episodes and how the characters remember it gets confusing when you have someone who didn't exist but who the characters remember existing. I didn't like that particular plot line on Angel either (I was happy when Wesley got his memories back but it was still confusing.)

[(Anonymous)]

I think my favorite part of this secret is the OP expressing surprise that there is still hate about these two! And then proceeding to bring up reasons to hate said actors. Well, actor.

I feel like this is a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing secret. Wherein the OP wants to make sure everyone knows that James Marsters is some huge pedo creep, but they want to be underhanded about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Guess what I did this week. I started to watch the show again. So it -is- always relevant to me haha.
But sometimes a thing just gets stuck in people's head when they have nothing better to do or think about. Don't worry about that. Although it might be justified, everything is right or wrong in someone else's eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

I was bracing to read some gross skeevy controversy where he romantically pursued her, but what I'm mostly getting from the comments is that he wrote a song and they were presumably friends? And that there's a twenty year age gap with his wife? Which seems pretty par for course in Hollywood, so I didn't even blink at that. Doesn't necessarily seem indicative of anything more sinister. I mean, I might be wrong and he might actually be a super creeper, but given all the baffled comments and the time span (ten plus years), if there was concrete evidence, I feel like this information would be more well known and he would have been lambasted years ago. Most of what I hear about him is that he's very friendly, if not a little weird and very enthusiastic.

There is so much drama on and off set of the Buffyverse and so many conflicting stories flying about, especially a decade years later, that I never know what to take at face value and what to assume is rumor. I try not to buy into anything without concrete evidence. I'm really hoping this one is just speculation without actual basis. :|