[ SECRET POST #2799 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2799 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #400.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/CfPjZlW.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

This is not a good definition of art. It would exclude large chunks of music and the visual arts while including things like PSAs and commercials.

OP Here

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mean "theme or message" in the sense of "buy this" or "Cheerios are delicious." I mean theme or message in the sense of "What is this work trying to say about the human condition?" or "What idea is this work trying to get across?" as two examples.

And I absolutely think that both music and purely visual arts (such as photographs) can answer these questions.

But it's just my personal definition of art at the end of the day.

[herpymcderp]

+1

[feotakahari]

Nah, that goes at least as far back as Missile Command.

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJA5YjvHDU

[(Anonymous)]

I was going to suggest Bioshock but you make a good point.

OP Here

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm…

Reading this makes me realize I probably should have specified "Of the games I've played"

Ah well.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not the definition of art, that's the definition of communication.

[herpymcderp]

But that pretty much describes a large chunk of indie games, which I would honestly hesitate to call art (I would prefer to call them pretentious drivel with terrible gameplay).

Now, if you had claimed that Spec Ops: The Line was one of the first games to marry artistic integrity to competent gameplay, I would agree with you. I would agree with you and raise you Journey, but I would still agree with you.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd put my hat in for Bioshock. And Journey. Journey is basically the video game version of one of those old poetic epics.

OP: So I basically made this secret as an excuse to gush...

[(Anonymous)]

Because HOLY HELL do I LOVE this game and I feel like I completely missed the boat on talking about it -- and I want to TELL someone.

Christ is it fucking brilliant. And I keep learning new, wonderful things about it every day. Just freaking yesterday, I found out that you actually don't have to fight the Heavy in Chapter 7 (after the first white phosphorous attack) and that you can listen to him chat with two other 33rd soldiers as walks past.

Or the fact that you're playing as a Captain, a First Lieutenant, and a Sergeant. Maybe it means nothing. But after I found out that an article written by a captain, a first lieutenant, and a sergeant about the second battle of Fallujah basically revealed to the world that the US was using white phosphorous in Iraq as a weapon (and a psychological one at that!) I can't stop thinking about how amazing this game is.

Just the level of care put into it is ASTOUNDING.

Re: OP: So I basically made this secret as an excuse to gush...

[(Anonymous)]

you should look up extra credit (if you haven't) they talked about it as a piece of art as well!

Re: OP: So I basically made this secret as an excuse to gush...

[dethtoll]

It really is an amazing game, isn't it? It's been a couple years, I plan to put myself through it soon.

Re: OP: So I basically made this secret as an excuse to gush...

[(Anonymous)]

holy hell I love the game so much and I had no idea about that with the heavy

the thing i saw that blew my mind on a replay was graffiti on a wall not long before The Gate: WILLY PETE WAS HERE

Re: OP: So I basically made this secret as an excuse to gush...

[(Anonymous)]

I just got this game in the Steam sale after lusting after it for ages, and now I'm scared to play it because I know it's going to be such an emotional ride - I'm that person who cried at the end of BioShock 2 and literally bawled more than once playing Mass Effect 3, hell, I even cried during Borderlands 2 - and I know from reading about it Spec Ops is really something else entirely. I'm going to be so massively invested in it and I'm scared but also so, so excited.

[brightblueink]

Eh, that's an awfully narrow definition of "art", imo. But I'm glad you enjoyed the game so much, regardless! I actually have it but haven't played it yet (lol steam sales...)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't why people consider video games art. I understand that art is nebulous concept. Gaming is literally in the title and most are narrow down to improving a skill within the game rather than observation and analyzing. Like unless you consider football an art, I don't get how you consider video games an art. I'll concede that there's art in games but it's weirdly juxtaposed with the actual gaming portion via cut scenes and dialog.

[(Anonymous)]

In this case, it's because I think SO:TL uses the interactive medium of gameplay to comment on its own medium on broad societal influences in an absolutely BRILLIANT way.

Film is considered art, but there's things like Transformers that exist. Same with books and Twilight. And it disappoints me that people will dismiss the artistic merits of video games out of hand because it's interactive.

SO:TL is extremely story-driven and, unlike football, has a message that the developers are trying to get across. I think it does a stupendous job, for example, of critiquing American military interventionism. There's a wonderful little moment in the game, for example, right after Walker has helped to destroy Dubai's water supply where he's walking past some NPCs trying to save as much of it as possible. One of the characters will shout "Keep on walking -- fucking Americans!" I though this was brilliant -- because in one little scene, it showed that the people who get fucked over by these policies don't know and don't care about so-called good intentions. They don't care that Walker is Delta and he's fighting against the 33rd and it was a trap by the CIA. To them, Walker's just yet another "fucking American" who came in and made the situation WORSE. And it reflects how often and how easily our own media often depicts Middle-Easterners as a homogenous group of either good or evil regardless of their intentions or actual allegiances.

And that's just one, tiny moment in the game.

[diet_poison]

Why are you comparing video games to football? I mean, I guess if you are talking about what the player is doing, yeah. The player isn't the artist. But people who make video games are making art - you can argue about whether it's good art or bad art, but it's art. All games include at least a basic visual that was created by someone, and they often also include music and story writing, two other basic categories of art. They are art, whether you like them or not. Even deciding how gameplay is going to work in a game is contributing to the overall work and how it's presented. It's interactive art, but I think that still qualifies as art.

[(Anonymous)]

while I appreciate your definition of art and recognizing that it's your personal definition...that exact definition is what drove me out of art school. I never had anything to say with my art, and that was the only thing they harped on.

[diet_poison]

That's a very narrow definition of art you've got there, OP. And I can't say I agree with it.

ETA: I didn't realize there were so many people on the "video games aren't art!" train here. :/

[dethtoll]

I don't agree with your definition of art. It's at once too broad and too limiting. But I agree that Spec Ops: The Line is art.

"Too broad" has been decently covered elsewhere, but as far as "too limiting," I'd like to take a moment to respond further to an anon upthread that I initially kind of casually dismissed with the Pac-man and Counterstrike comment, and I'm doing it here because I feel it's relevant: dismissing video games as "not art" is fairly ignorant, and it's like dismissing movies or comics or any other medium of expression as "not art." Yes, there's going to be games that aren't much more than competitive Tacticool Manshooting, or Bounce On the Penises to Save the Prince, or whatever the fuck. That's fine. That's expected. But video games are more than just that. The intersection between games and storytelling has been there since the text adventure days, and as technology improved, so did the visuals, which means visual storytelling (in other words, show, don't tell.) Games are now a multimedia form of expression, encompassing writing, visuals and audio -- right up there with film. You can't declare one film to be "not art" and not denigrate the entire medium. Film is art, period -- regardless of whether it's good or bad. And the same holds true for video games. Even if, for example, Counterstrike (or Call of Duty, which is mostly just more Counterstrike) isn't going to tell you some kind of rad story with amazing visuals etc. etc. etc. that doesn't make it not art, and in fact I'd argue that in games like that, the artistic merit of the game is often expressed through the players.

The Stalker series, The Walking Dead, Spec Ops: The Line, the Bioshock series, the first three Thief games, Deus Ex and Human Revolution, Fallout 1, Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, Journey, the Metal Gear Solid series, Half-Life 2, Final Fantasy 6 and 7, Grim Fandango, Myst, Silent Hill 2, the list goes on and on -- if these games aren't art, then art is all the poorer for it.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no doubt the game you mentioned must be very good if it produced such a strong reaction in you. Art, indeed.

But, if you think this is the first time a game has attained this, I'm afraid I think your view is quite narrow. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of games that qualify. I for one, consider the Portal series true art, for example; hell, I've experienced the same awe and admiration for games from the NES and SNES era!

[(Anonymous)]

I for one find a definition of "art" that hinges upon a message, purpose, method, or merit to be utterly nonsensical. Art is a variant of expression ("expression" used loosely), the same as music. I wouldn't say that because I don't enjoy a band's work, or I didn't find it fulfilling or meaningful that said band wasn't making "music." "Art" is merely a category of things, not an award bestowed on something for achieving some level of societally-based "merit."

Does that mean that you could conceivably stick a piece of gum on your toilet and say "that's art"? Sure. Being "art" doesn't demean anything else that's considered art. It's just a category, not a value.

[(Anonymous)]

don't even care about the secret, just super excited to see spec ops being recognised for anything