[ SECRET POST #352 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #352 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #051.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] too big, [ 1 ] hate letter.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, December 24th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 32

[kyriesanctus.livejournal.com]

It's not that someone has to be the 'bestest artist ever' in order to critique someone, but, they must have at least a little bit of an eye for artwork and techinique in order to correctly critique someone, otherwise it goes from being a critique to a flame, like, "needs life drawing lessons stat." Surely you wouldn't want someone whose biggest artistic accomplishment is a stick figure to say your artwork lacks anatomical realism and that your coloring is as deep as a puddle.

Judging from the portfolio you've presented, you don't have much room to talk to Keysha-chan specifically, seeing as your style is dramatically different from her's. Her anatomy, in her style, is roughly just as good as yours in your style, and I personally prefer her coloring over yours. It ends up being a matter of opinion at that point...

The difference between the two of you? I know her, not very personally, but I do know she'd be one of the last people on Earth to tell someone they need to go take classes in a harsh and hurtful manner. So, yeah, by saying things that make you sound like a douche, you really did need to 'put up or shut up.'

Not the person you're replying to

[(Anonymous)]

Just a re: to the art of criticizing, apparently.

Saying that someone needs to have any sort of art skills to know something about colouring is like saying you have to be a sous-chef to appreciate a fine meal.

It just doesn't work that way. Sometimes, the person with the most fucked drawing skills may have the world's best eye for anatomy, or perspective, or colouring.

Re: Not the person you're replying to

[kyriesanctus.livejournal.com]

That person, then, is qualified to say something..

What I meant was that you wouldn't want someone who didn't know what something was supposed to look like to talk trash about something you made.

Also, there's a polite way to say everything, you know? It's called constructive criticism, and, this may not be your policy, but, I've always found that helpful critiques are worth more than mean-spirited and harsh ones, and I make sure to always be helpful if I'm going to critique someone, because that's what I'd want someone to do for me.

Re: Not the person you're replying to

[(Anonymous)]

True, I didn't approve of the snobby way the guy was trying to explain things to you, but not being able to draw something =/= not knowing what it looks like.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Oh hey, I was bored so I did this mock-up real quick (w/ no reference):



Hate to break it to you, but your friend doesn't have an actual style, the kind that comes from drawing for years and working on vastly different projects and developing intellectual and motor skills. She has an amateur's animu style. As, I will be fair, did I when I was a sophomore or junior in high school. No, her anatomy is not good. There are errors in her drawing that have nothing to do with "style," which the secret-poster redlined (she didn't redline damn near enough, in my opinion). Yes, I'm harsh, because artists hate to hear that there are errors in their work and then people leap to defend them and that just makes it worse. If you can't see the errors, you can't fix them, and part of learning to see as an artist is about recognizing errors.

I may be a douche, but I'm at least a fairly effective one when it comes to critique.

Re: 32

[kinneas.livejournal.com]

Hot.

And that's really all I have to offer.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

:D Thank you very much!

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Wow uh.

I'd rather have hers.

Like...a lot. That's uh...wow.

Guess that's the funny thing about art. It's a matter of taste. But uh...wow. Nice uh...scrible demon-person-thing there.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'd rather have Dr Worm's too. Hers actually looks like a person instead of a malformed demon-thing. That's the thing about art, though: I'd rather have something that's unfinished but looks good than a completed picture that looks awful.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was saying the exact opposite, I don't like Drworms at all.

I thinks it's ugly and very unfinished looking, not in a good way. I have no doubt Drworm only did it in a few minutes, it shows greatly.

Drworms has more correct to reality anatomy (tho I highly doubt that's what the artist in the secret was going for), but IMO not very nice line quality, chunky amateurish shading (I'm assuming because it was done quickly on a tablet, but she still chose to show something of a lower quality piece to make a point, so it's fair to judge on. Plus the shading was markedly unnecessary, so she added in something bad looking that was unneeded and detracts from the picture) a bad sense of balance (both in the over all composition, and in the figure, they have no center of weight. One leg of the other needs to be farther forward), and there's something very odd going on with the size of the head. The neck is too thick, the shoulders are wrong....oh and the ears are placed wrong. or the hair/ear overlaps badly to make them look like they're in the wrong place.

Of course the pictures not all bad, but as Drworm seem to think they are the shit, or at least present themselves as god's gift to artist...yeah, no.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Yes, it took me fifteen minutes or whatever because it's not fucking finished and not meant to be. I have plenty of finished work up for judgment; this was a challenge to myself.

the shading was markedly unnecessary

wut

One leg of the other needs to be farther forward

One is, but it's a shitty 15 minute drawing and the shading is mediocre.

there's something very odd going on with the size of the head

Sry you don't like big hair.

Oh, and yeah, I know that the shoulder/neck area isn't great, as that tends to be a weak spot of mine. I was too lazy to find myself a reference; if this was a piece I cared about, I'd try harder. I put the same amount of effort into this that I assume the artist of the piece in the secret did. TADA. OH NO IT'S JUST SCRIBBLES, YOU SAY? ON A PAPER NAPKIN? MY WORD, BUT SOME CAD JUST PAID $5000 FOR IT! OH, MY MONOCLE!

And I am totally the shit, glad you noticed.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

You posted this. What was that about taking crit? I'm judging this like I'd judge a gesture drawing in a life studies class, not a finished piece. If you don't want "Shitty 15 minutes drawings" judged, don't post em if you think they're crappy? Or if you do, don't get all butt hurt when someone crits you after you put yourself up for it.

And what was that about artist not being able to handle crit well? Or does that only apply when you're GIVING and not TAKING? (Please, please please, I'd love some crit on my art, feel free to go comment the hell outta my gallery, I KNOW I have shit loads of mistakes)

The shading was not needed. You added something in that took away time and made the piece look WORSE not BETTER. It's be like taking a fine piece of fiction that you think needs some ellipses, but since you don't have time to do it well, throwing them in wherever they looked good. If you didn't have time to do it well, you should have just left it without shading.

She has simultaneously big and flat hair (As it's much bigger in some places then others, and not in a natural way) Looks odd. Not impossible, everyone has bad hair days, but odd.

If you didn't care, don't get butt hurt over crit.

And uh...I checked out your Y-galley. I much prefer this scribble. You have a lot of issues with anatomy and such in there too. In a completely not snarky way, would you like some honest crit?

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

They said they did it quickly. It's obviously a rough sketch, so critiquing the line quality and speed shading? lol. They weren't showing the AMAZING QUALITY of their penning and shading skills, but rather a proper fun figure. In the finished piece by Keysha the shading in much worse than the blotchy shading of Dr Worm's in any case.
'Over all composition'? The overall composition was no better or worse than Keysha's. It was a person slapped onto plain paper. And, also, at least Dr Worm's attempt at hiding the hands doesn't look unnatural. (Personally, Keysha's person looks like she's taking a wizz.) It looks more like it's being hidden my smoke and not just 'I couldn't be bothered to draw hands lol.' The centre of balance is absent in both pieces, as it's a rather queer pose to see someone holding for more than a split second.
And you could at least point out the right body part. The head is the part that's too big in comparison to the neck, but I guess all that anime makes you think people have straws for necks. The shoulders are fine following the arm and body position. I don't see where you're getting that the shoulders are wrong.
The problem with the ear is that, as I see it, is that it's too flat. Though, people don't usually have huge ears like that, so I applaud Dr Worm for trying to make it look right. As far as position at the base goes, the ear look fine to me. Because it's elongated, it looks high, but at the base it's correct.
I don't think they're 'God's gift to artist', but at least they know how to draw a human.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

It's a rough sketch they chose to put up in a thread about critiquing, and I've seen much better from 5 minutes life drawing exercises in my art classes, which is more what I'm comparing it to the the secret art.

The shading it utterly unnecessary. It's bad, so why add it? Why take time to add in something that takes away from the art?

I wasn't critiquing the Secret post, you are quite correct they have the same issue, however, if I was going to go about "Correcting" things, I correct them. *shrug* Just me. The hand, to me, looks much more "I couldn't bother to draw it." but then again the shading doesn't have much of a smoky quality to it.

The implied line of the front of the neck would make the neck far to thick. The shoulder are not wide enough (The right one), and the line of the spine in the neck does not follow the line of the spine down the back. Drworm admitted that themselves.

Where the ear comes out of the hair looks awkward. Like I said, had they worked on the piece, that might just be something that got cleaned up and fixed just fine.

Ah, but the original person wasn't drawing a human, they were drawing a cartoon elf. So you don't actually know how their realistic style looks from that picture. (Maybe they have something in their DA that's horrendously out of proportion and realistic style, but uh...that's not it.)

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

ur racist against scribble demons

what r her eyes not big and glittery enough or sumthin?

oops wrong fuck you icon haha

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Actually the face was one of the things I might enjoy if it was clearer, looks very much like the style of say the illustration in the old Oz books, very Ozma fae like.

Cept the lines you left on made her look like she had huge giant catapillar eyebrows, but ah well.

Re: 32

[gallo-de-pelea.livejournal.com]

This kind of info is much better than "needs life drawing stat"

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

but it takes longer to write and my hands are tired :(

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

i for 1 am not impressed wit ur chickenscratch drawing u made the pose look dumb when it was supposd 2 b CUTE DUH

also theres a diffrence btween anime and rael ppl OK

u dont want 2 help u just want 2 b bitchy and mean when ur art sux

get a new hobby OK

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

Very, very nice.

Re: 32

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

I love seeing the artist's original scribbles, and yeah, this is just lovely.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

oh hi i fixed your drawing and made it more kawaii~~~~

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

You have improved upon my art in a way I never thought possible. Godspeed, young'un! *salutes*

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

thats ok ask anytime you want any honest to earth crit ill always be here for you ^.^

Re: 32

[lauraorganasolo.livejournal.com]

I must preface this with the fact that I have no idea who the character or the artist is. Also, I can't draw for beans.

Just because it's vaguely reminiscent of anime doesn't make it amateur. What about the boring, overdone style of Western superhero comic book characters that comics have been inundated with for 40 years? Does that mean that everyone who draws vaguely correctly proportioned but generic-looking, square-jawed Caucasian men SRS PROFESSIONAL ARTISTS?

If #32 looked like a copy of a super-popular anime artist's/mangaka's style, I could understand the claim. It doesn't look like an Dragonball or Bleach character or a shoujo anime heroine, though, it looks very much like the artist's own original style. And that style is cute, and fairly unique -- seriously, how often do you see female characters that look like they actually have some meat on them?

On the other hand, sometimes I get sick of giant eyes and other miscellaneous animu faggotry, and I want to see realistic depictions of people. Case-in-point: my ship/OTP/whatever. They're two characters in a movie with human actors, but of course in what few doujinshi that exist for it, the art is all WHEE ANIMU for the most part.

But this character is obviously not based on a real person. So I don't see why you have to equate whimsical style with fail. It's not necessary for everyone to draw people like, I don't know, Da Vinci etc.