[ SECRET POST #368 ]

[shahni.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #368 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- First comment is: Name That Fandom!!

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #053.
Secrets Not Posted: [1] [2] broken links, 0 not!secrets, [1] not!fandom, [1] personal attack.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, January 9th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[xenoglossy]

... Is it incest day or something? I missed that memo.

10. I... don't think Subaru is really a role model for healthy ways of dealing with grief. (Really, few CLAMP characters are role models for healthy anything.)

16. So I guess you don't watch Gundam series at all, huh?

21. ... But it's still a pretty new series, isn't it? I'm still in fandoms for things that are older than that.

45. ... That is kind of an awesome idea.

48. That's kind of funny -- I was planning on buying Haruhi because I really enjoyed it, but then they went on and on about how downloading fansubs made the baby Haruhi cry... so I didn't, just to be contrary. Okay, I might still buy it after all. I fully admit that that's a really dumb reason to deny myself something I actually want. But it still kind of annoyed me.

(... Cue comments calling me an entitlement whore and the reason why the anime industry is going to die. I do buy things, for the record -- I just didn't buy that.)

also, 34

[xenoglossy]

It's amazing how many things in fandom are like the Nazis. It's sort of like the way that in fandom, everything is like rape (except for non-consensual sex, of course). I wonder if more things are like the Nazis or like rape. I'd keep a running tally, but I'd never be able to keep up.

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

People have been downloading for years- and YES it is the reason why anime is so expensive here. It would be a lot cheaper were there not alot of downloading going on. In all honesty if I really like a series and have seen the fansubs, I will probably buy the box set the moment it comes out in North America. But wtf, maybe if they actually, I dunno, talked about how anime would be cheaper if ppl actually bought it and went into depth with it rather than BAWWWW it would make more of an impact.

[xenoglossy]

Huh, is that why? I've never heard that argument before. I'm guessing you mean it's because so few people buy it that they have to jack the prices way up to make any profit? But then it's a vicious cycle, really, because the higher the prices go, the fewer people can afford it, so they'd have to drive the prices even higher... Really, anime's main fanbase is teenagers and young adults, and they (or rather, we) don't tend to have huge amounts of disposable cash. (Personally, I go with Netflix these days -- less expensive than buying anime, more legal than downloading it).

And yeah, I don't know if they had any thoughtful and reasonable discussion of it, but all I saw was "don't download fansubs! No, seriously, don't do it! It's wrong and bad and wrong!" and while I can, logically, completely understand why they're saying that... I don't know, it just struck me as not a very good way of going about it. Although clearly it worked on at least one person.

(Besides, they had this live-action clip thing with a girl dressed up as/ostensibly acting like Haruhi telling people not to download fansubs. Which, you know, is sort of out of character -- I mean, this is the girl who cheerfully threatens and blackmails to get her way; I doubt fansubs would cause her great moral outrage. But that's neither here nor there, really.)

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

Well, from a business standpoint that has to be it, because the cost to american business ppl is basically liscenceing, import, and redubbing with maybe some editing if you're 4kids/viz.

I mean, yeah, saying its wrong makes sense, but saying WHY it would benifit YOU as an anime fan, and why you should support the companies that make the series you love! I mean, especially dealing with teens, who don't really have any sense of money (well, most it seems, I know I was one of them) or how serious these things can be. I mean, i dont even get the full grasp of it I'm sure. I don't deny it- I watch, and download fansubs... but I also make sure to also buy series that I enjoy!

W...w.....what? Really.... REALLY? Oh god that's pathetic. I should go watch that now... and i really should watch Haruhi sometime XD

[xenoglossy]

Yeah, exactly. Just saying "don't do it, it's bad!" isn't going to get many teenagers to listen; explaining exactly the effect it's having/will have on you might help a bit more.

Yeah, really. It was pretty special. I don't have the link or anything, though -- I think it was on their official site somewhere.

(You know, I think this may be the most reasonable discussion about fansubs I've ever had.)

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

I'm not 100% certain, but I think that's why things like Fruits Basket's were offered cheaper later on, after they got so popular. They could afford it.

But like you said, it's a vicious cycle. How many anime fans are really gonna say "Oh yeah, I'll spend $35 on a DVD now so that in 5-10 years they're only $15." I really do feel for those trying to keep this going as a business.

[xenoglossy]

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

Yeah, exactly. It seems to really be a tricky place to be in.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

5 - 10 they'll be 15? What store are you shopping at? I bought Peacemaker as it was released, volume by volume, it ran me about.... 140 dollars for the entire set.

ADV released a thin pack boxset the following year at around 60 something dollars (best buy price).

Anime drops real fast, especially if you buy from stores that buy it in bulk like BestBuy. Hell, at Walmart you can get anime for UNDER 20 dollars.

Freak Naruto boxsets are 25 and I don't even like that retarded show.

I don't know why people are bitching and moaning about " how expensive " anime is. Trying be an anime fan five, six, seven years ago when the shit was still on VHS. Yeah, then bitching about anime could be justifiable then.

Oh man, I'm one grouchy old fan, am I?

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

Anime is not expensive because of people downloading. How long have you been an anime fan, actually? I'm sure you don't remember the days of VHS where 2 episodes was 30 dollars and you DIDN'T have the option of dub or sub.

Yes, Anime has ALWAYS been "expensive". I think anime is cheaper NOW because you get more for your BUCK and they're not simply copying over the original Japanese R2 release which only has 2 episodes for 40 bucks.

Research, darling :)

[tealizard.livejournal.com]

Let's see... 9 years, although if you REALLY want to count Hello Kitty, Sailor Moon, Speed Racer and SPK, 14 years. Yeah. So yes, I do remember the VHS days.

Yes, you DO get more for your buck BUT, it is still more expensive than say, a full length movie. In a full length movie, you get options of english.french.spanish most often. You get subtitles as well. You get several special features such as bloopers, making ofs, interveiws, that you don't get with anime. anime you usually get trailers and that's it. Feature length movies cost from 2.99 in the bin at walmart, to 40 dollars, but usually, they peak around 20 - 25 bucks. Anime will run you anywhere from 30 - 50 dollars, more often 50 especially in Eastern Canada. these prices are nonsense, seriously. Considering the ACTUAL COST that the American companies put in (far less than that of a feature length), 25 bucks for a DVD of 5 episodes is more than enough.

Just because it's 'cheaper' now than it was in 1990 means nothing, seriously. Alot of stuff gets more 'worth it' over time just because of the technology going into it. Movies back then were 25 dollars too. They didn't have anything but the movie. Anime has always been overpriced.

So believe it or not, when you're downloading those fansubs and burning them off and adding it to your collection, rather than buying the dvd's, you're just contributing to the high cost of anime DVD's, because they can't afford to lower them, and killing the industry, just as much as downloading music and movies does.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

The average Japanese dvd costs 35 dollars. A Japanese movie can go from 35 dollars all the way up 250 dollars. That is including an American movie as well which is marketed in Japan.

When anime is brought over to the states, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper that the R2 release. You must also realize that these dvds are just direct copies from the R2s with an English track thrown on. I don't know what type of DVDs you've been buying that all you have is just a trailer (unless its a Viz release -- cause they're cheap bastards, but anyway) you get a hell of a lot more than that. FUNImation and ADV releases ALWAYS come packed with interviews, bloopers, commentary, etc.

You do get your bang for your buck. I don't see how 5 episodes for 20 dollars is EXPENSIVE. Seriously, you're not only PAYING for the dvd -- you're paying for the licensing rights. Its an IMPORTED product, you're paying for that. Movies are domestically made, thus there isn't a HIGH price for them.

Also, what dvds are you finding for 2.99? Movies that are made five, six, seven years ago. New movies are 15, 16, 17, all the way up to 30 dollars. PoTC 3 cost me 27 dollars. The regular edition was 21.

Seriously, the market is severely inexpensive compared to the Japanese market and is pretty much on par with the American movie market.

You must realize that these 50 dollar dvds maybe a special edition that comes with a box or something. There is always the cheaper alternative.

I don't understand your movie remark. Anime VHS had one or the other and only two episodes, THAT was expensive. At least movies, at the end of the VHS, had trailers or something that kept you watching.

You must also take into consideration of the RENTAL industry that keeps many DVDs at considerable rates. Anime does not have a large rental community. Its purely retail.

Please, fansubs isn't doing anymore damage to the anime community rather than expanding it. Why the hell is anime getting licensed faster? FANSUBS.

Why the hell is all these titles popular. Why is there a Shounen Jump? Shoujo Jump? Why is Death Note here a YEAR after its Japanese premiere ( and may I say almost exactly to the DATE of premiere) because of FANSUBS.

FANSUBS help this industry.

:)

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Yes, but anime is also a lot more in demand. Prices should be going significantly down, because there's a much large market for it.

And 2 episodes vs 4 episodes isn't great. Obviously it's not that black and white, and you do have a point, but it's also not an EPIC AMAZING CHANGE. Although it is sinking somewhat, because of many things (Including fan subs), the prices aren't as cheap as a lot of things. Things are getting better (although with recent developments that may change) but they still aren't as cheap as say, American cartoons.

I also think some of it comes from the fact that few other fandoms are so encompassing. If you're a CSI fan you have 1-3 box sets a year to buy, not the 10 or so an anime fan might want. Which is just kinda one of those "Life's tough, huh." things. But that's a different tangents.

But yes. Fansubbing does have an effect. People in the companies, way up, have come right out and said this, it's not some guessing on our part.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

Saying that anime show drop below 15 dollars, roughly speaking, means that no one is really going to make a profit. Not the stores, not the distributors, not the Japanese companies, and not the American companies that forked out the thousands to license the product.

You simply can't compare a domestic product to an imported product. Its not how the system works. Even an economics class can tell you that. Especially if the product is from a country where its cost of labor is almost on par with the country that's purchasing it.

Anime fans can wait a year and shell out the 65 - 130 dollars for the boxset of their 26 episode show.

Fans of television have to shell out that much for each SEASON. Depending on how many episodes. Either way, its expensive.

Companies have been saying this since the days of Napster.

Its been eleven years and the industry hasn't exploded yet.

[wllw.livejournal.com]

48. No, I fully agree with the sentiment.

I mean, yes, downloading fansubs isn't helping the industry any, but it's not as if the industry is making things easy on us, with the insanely overpriced DVDs. It's a vicious circle and all. But what really bothers me about this is is how the go on about how fansubs = the source of all evil, when fansubs are the reason Haruhi became so popular in the US in the first place. Again, vicious circle.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

insanely overpriced DVDs

BestBuy, dear :) 20 dollars. Bandai and Pioneer are between 25 - 30. :)

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Ok, I have to say, when ALL of Invader Zim is $24, that's pretty damned expensive, per disc.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

Invader Zim is also a domestically released and made cartoon.

Please see above comment to understand how the system works. :)

[wllw.livejournal.com]

Europe, dear. :) Unless those companies also sell PAL DVDs somewhere and I've missed it?

[xenoglossy]

I'm glad it's not just me, then. And yeah, that's true too -- if it weren't for fansubs, most people probably wouldn't have heard of the series to begin with, so... yeah. Really, it's a horrendously complicated issue -- not nearly as straightforward as either side likes to make it out to be.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

I didn't by Haruhi because I wanted the dvds like the Japanese version. Why do I have to fork out an extra 30 bucks just so I can have the series in the original airing?

Blows my mind till this day.

[xenoglossy]

There's that, too. Really, I tried watching the series in chronological order after having watched it in broadcast order and... it just doesn't work as well that way. I really don't understand why the American DVDs put them in chronological order -- I mean, they weren't meant to be, so.

[lady-mercury.livejournal.com]

I watched it in Chronological order after the last episode premiered in Japan.

Quite frankly, Haruhi is boring in that order.

I really didn't buy the whole " due to licensing we have to have the dvds in chronological order BUT if you fork out 65 bucks you can get the dvds in original japanese airing ".

I call BS, sorry.

48

[friendshipbeam.livejournal.com]

Uh, that part was supposed to be funny. Bandai is fully aware that Haruhi's fansub success is the reason that people buy the series here.

[teal-deer.livejournal.com]

Baby, I will make a crack journal for the sole purpose of doing #45, if we can get enough people. Ssrly.