fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #368 ]

[ SECRET POST #368 ]

⌈ Secret Post #368 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- First comment is: Name That Fandom!!

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 150 secrets from Secret Submission Post #053.
Secrets Not Posted: [1] [2] broken links, 0 not!secrets, [1] not!fandom, [1] personal attack.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, January 9th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

People have been downloading for years- and YES it is the reason why anime is so expensive here. It would be a lot cheaper were there not alot of downloading going on. In all honesty if I really like a series and have seen the fansubs, I will probably buy the box set the moment it comes out in North America. But wtf, maybe if they actually, I dunno, talked about how anime would be cheaper if ppl actually bought it and went into depth with it rather than BAWWWW it would make more of an impact.

Huh, is that why? I've never heard that argument before. I'm guessing you mean it's because so few people buy it that they have to jack the prices way up to make any profit? But then it's a vicious cycle, really, because the higher the prices go, the fewer people can afford it, so they'd have to drive the prices even higher... Really, anime's main fanbase is teenagers and young adults, and they (or rather, we) don't tend to have huge amounts of disposable cash. (Personally, I go with Netflix these days -- less expensive than buying anime, more legal than downloading it).

And yeah, I don't know if they had any thoughtful and reasonable discussion of it, but all I saw was "don't download fansubs! No, seriously, don't do it! It's wrong and bad and wrong!" and while I can, logically, completely understand why they're saying that... I don't know, it just struck me as not a very good way of going about it. Although clearly it worked on at least one person.

(Besides, they had this live-action clip thing with a girl dressed up as/ostensibly acting like Haruhi telling people not to download fansubs. Which, you know, is sort of out of character -- I mean, this is the girl who cheerfully threatens and blackmails to get her way; I doubt fansubs would cause her great moral outrage. But that's neither here nor there, really.)

Well, from a business standpoint that has to be it, because the cost to american business ppl is basically liscenceing, import, and redubbing with maybe some editing if you're 4kids/viz.

I mean, yeah, saying its wrong makes sense, but saying WHY it would benifit YOU as an anime fan, and why you should support the companies that make the series you love! I mean, especially dealing with teens, who don't really have any sense of money (well, most it seems, I know I was one of them) or how serious these things can be. I mean, i dont even get the full grasp of it I'm sure. I don't deny it- I watch, and download fansubs... but I also make sure to also buy series that I enjoy!

W...w.....what? Really.... REALLY? Oh god that's pathetic. I should go watch that now... and i really should watch Haruhi sometime XD

Yeah, exactly. Just saying "don't do it, it's bad!" isn't going to get many teenagers to listen; explaining exactly the effect it's having/will have on you might help a bit more.

Yeah, really. It was pretty special. I don't have the link or anything, though -- I think it was on their official site somewhere.

(You know, I think this may be the most reasonable discussion about fansubs I've ever had.)

I'm not 100% certain, but I think that's why things like Fruits Basket's were offered cheaper later on, after they got so popular. They could afford it.

But like you said, it's a vicious cycle. How many anime fans are really gonna say "Oh yeah, I'll spend $35 on a DVD now so that in 5-10 years they're only $15." I really do feel for those trying to keep this going as a business.

That makes a lot of sense, actually.

Yeah, exactly. It seems to really be a tricky place to be in.

5 - 10 they'll be 15? What store are you shopping at? I bought Peacemaker as it was released, volume by volume, it ran me about.... 140 dollars for the entire set.

ADV released a thin pack boxset the following year at around 60 something dollars (best buy price).

Anime drops real fast, especially if you buy from stores that buy it in bulk like BestBuy. Hell, at Walmart you can get anime for UNDER 20 dollars.

Freak Naruto boxsets are 25 and I don't even like that retarded show.

I don't know why people are bitching and moaning about " how expensive " anime is. Trying be an anime fan five, six, seven years ago when the shit was still on VHS. Yeah, then bitching about anime could be justifiable then.

Oh man, I'm one grouchy old fan, am I?

I haven't bought anything since Chirstmas last year, and then my Paradise Kiss DVD's were $30 at Best Buy. (I only have one for that exact reason)

The Naruto box sets were on SALE for $20, once, but usually they're $40-$60, and that was only the first season, which is 13 episodes.

Obviously the companies ARE responding, and have the wiggle room that if something gets popular they can drop the price, as best they can, and some serise are dropping, but it is still a rather expensive habit.

Although yeah, VHS ones were WAY worse (And oy the shelf space)

Paradise Kiss is probably that much due to the fact that Franz Ferdinand is getting royalties. And that it is a Geneon product and Geneon is little bitches.

The first two boxsets have been out since 06, IIRC, and I significantly surprised not to find 1, 2, 3, but all 4 for under 30 dollars.

I guess I don't understand the "expensive" claim that everyone throws at anime because I purchase a lot of Japanese R2 dvds... but I find the industry very cheap. If you go to an FYE, yeah, you're gonna blow full price on the DVDs but mass inventory stores like BestBuy, and you're sure to find a deal. Even online.

Anime is not expensive as it used to be. Unless you don't have a job or still a teenager with your parents.

Hun, I know how the system works, I've been in fandom for...over a decade (Sweet Jesus, I feel old)

To you, $20 may not be a lot, to me it is. I have rent and more to pay. So that is expensive to me, especially when most everything else I go to buy is around $10. (I am not someone to buy something right when it comes out, but that applies across the board)

I wasjust at Best Buy earlier this week, and all four box sets we're at least $30, of Naruto. I've been wanting to buy them so tend to keep an eye out for them on sale. Unless Best Buys are more expensive here...In fact a quick search on bestbuy.com (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7828372&st=Naruto&lp=1&type=product&cp=2&id=1541241) shows the first, and cheapest, at $45.

And although Parakiss might be more expensive due to this, it's not the only one out there, just my first example.

Yes it's cheaper then it use to be. That doesn't make it cheap, especially if you're collecting several series. I don't think the right answer is to download stuff, and don't practice that, but I do understand the cry.

I understand bills. I have that as well, and I commute over an hour to work just to make the money I do just to have the pocket change I do have to support my very expensive fandoms (j-music, musicals, and dramas).

I don't like the defense that BECAUSE ANIME IS EXPENSIVE I REFUSE TO BUY THE PRODUCT. Because, its not expensive. If anime was expensive then the industry probably would not have stayed afloat.

All I am saying is that fansubs is not the reason why anime is expensive. If it was, prices would have been raised to compensate for loss revenue but it hasn't within the past 7 years that the industry made the switch to DVD and its not anytime soon.

I'm just glad anime isn't in the Specal Interest section anymore and there's rows dedicated to the stuff now. But since I've moved on from anime and focusing on music and movies more so than ever -- I'm back in the same boat.

Either way, it's not expensive and it's hard these days to find movies under 15 dollars that are NOT new movies.

I had to wait a year and a half to buy Letters from Iwo Jima, almost two to buy Memoirs of a Geisha at reasonable prices (below 20).

So yeah. As long as I'm not paying 40 bucks for a 5 episode disc of Samurai Champloo, I'm good.

I guess expensive is relative, but since people who RUN the companies are saying fansubs are a problem, and one company just folded (Anime Insider this month has a giant story about it), in part, due to fansubs, yes I think they're an issues.

Something that has grown in popularity, and is cheaper to make (And DVD's are markedly cheaper to make then DVDs) should be getting cheaper. the fact that anime doesn't reflect that as strongly as it should is a pretty big sign. And the fact that it's a big deal when they make cheaper versions (like when they had the huge push for the cheaper Fruist Baskets, and more then a few companies advertise their cheaper releases....) Obviously if they are making an effort to make, and advertise more affordable versions, they realize there's an issue about it. Just because YOU have the money for it, doesn't make it moot.

Yes it's hard to find new DVD under $15. You missed the point. It's hard to find OLD anime under $15, and not hard to pick up, say Stargate, for $6. I'm comparing old to old.

Anime is not expensive because of people downloading. How long have you been an anime fan, actually? I'm sure you don't remember the days of VHS where 2 episodes was 30 dollars and you DIDN'T have the option of dub or sub.

Yes, Anime has ALWAYS been "expensive". I think anime is cheaper NOW because you get more for your BUCK and they're not simply copying over the original Japanese R2 release which only has 2 episodes for 40 bucks.

Research, darling :)

Let's see... 9 years, although if you REALLY want to count Hello Kitty, Sailor Moon, Speed Racer and SPK, 14 years. Yeah. So yes, I do remember the VHS days.

Yes, you DO get more for your buck BUT, it is still more expensive than say, a full length movie. In a full length movie, you get options of english.french.spanish most often. You get subtitles as well. You get several special features such as bloopers, making ofs, interveiws, that you don't get with anime. anime you usually get trailers and that's it. Feature length movies cost from 2.99 in the bin at walmart, to 40 dollars, but usually, they peak around 20 - 25 bucks. Anime will run you anywhere from 30 - 50 dollars, more often 50 especially in Eastern Canada. these prices are nonsense, seriously. Considering the ACTUAL COST that the American companies put in (far less than that of a feature length), 25 bucks for a DVD of 5 episodes is more than enough.

Just because it's 'cheaper' now than it was in 1990 means nothing, seriously. Alot of stuff gets more 'worth it' over time just because of the technology going into it. Movies back then were 25 dollars too. They didn't have anything but the movie. Anime has always been overpriced.

So believe it or not, when you're downloading those fansubs and burning them off and adding it to your collection, rather than buying the dvd's, you're just contributing to the high cost of anime DVD's, because they can't afford to lower them, and killing the industry, just as much as downloading music and movies does.

The average Japanese dvd costs 35 dollars. A Japanese movie can go from 35 dollars all the way up 250 dollars. That is including an American movie as well which is marketed in Japan.

When anime is brought over to the states, it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper that the R2 release. You must also realize that these dvds are just direct copies from the R2s with an English track thrown on. I don't know what type of DVDs you've been buying that all you have is just a trailer (unless its a Viz release -- cause they're cheap bastards, but anyway) you get a hell of a lot more than that. FUNImation and ADV releases ALWAYS come packed with interviews, bloopers, commentary, etc.

You do get your bang for your buck. I don't see how 5 episodes for 20 dollars is EXPENSIVE. Seriously, you're not only PAYING for the dvd -- you're paying for the licensing rights. Its an IMPORTED product, you're paying for that. Movies are domestically made, thus there isn't a HIGH price for them.

Also, what dvds are you finding for 2.99? Movies that are made five, six, seven years ago. New movies are 15, 16, 17, all the way up to 30 dollars. PoTC 3 cost me 27 dollars. The regular edition was 21.

Seriously, the market is severely inexpensive compared to the Japanese market and is pretty much on par with the American movie market.

You must realize that these 50 dollar dvds maybe a special edition that comes with a box or something. There is always the cheaper alternative.

I don't understand your movie remark. Anime VHS had one or the other and only two episodes, THAT was expensive. At least movies, at the end of the VHS, had trailers or something that kept you watching.

You must also take into consideration of the RENTAL industry that keeps many DVDs at considerable rates. Anime does not have a large rental community. Its purely retail.

Please, fansubs isn't doing anymore damage to the anime community rather than expanding it. Why the hell is anime getting licensed faster? FANSUBS.

Why the hell is all these titles popular. Why is there a Shounen Jump? Shoujo Jump? Why is Death Note here a YEAR after its Japanese premiere ( and may I say almost exactly to the DATE of premiere) because of FANSUBS.

FANSUBS help this industry.

:)

Look- I understand that fansubs help by opening more doors, showing ppl that there are good shows out there. I watch fansubs.

What doesn't help is when people burn them to disc and put them away, deciding that since they have it burned they don't need to buy it, which is what the majority of fans are doing today. THAT is the problem I have with it.

And by the way I'm referring to the shitty single dvds, not the box sets, Box sets are worth it sometimes, but the single dvds seem to come with jack,

They're everywhere. American industry, Japanese, European. Cheap people are everywhere. Its a practice going on for years and its not going to stop. It is not impacting the industry as everyone has CLAIMED it has.

That is what I was referring too. I've never bot a boxset in my life.

Yes, but anime is also a lot more in demand. Prices should be going significantly down, because there's a much large market for it.

And 2 episodes vs 4 episodes isn't great. Obviously it's not that black and white, and you do have a point, but it's also not an EPIC AMAZING CHANGE. Although it is sinking somewhat, because of many things (Including fan subs), the prices aren't as cheap as a lot of things. Things are getting better (although with recent developments that may change) but they still aren't as cheap as say, American cartoons.

I also think some of it comes from the fact that few other fandoms are so encompassing. If you're a CSI fan you have 1-3 box sets a year to buy, not the 10 or so an anime fan might want. Which is just kinda one of those "Life's tough, huh." things. But that's a different tangents.

But yes. Fansubbing does have an effect. People in the companies, way up, have come right out and said this, it's not some guessing on our part.

Saying that anime show drop below 15 dollars, roughly speaking, means that no one is really going to make a profit. Not the stores, not the distributors, not the Japanese companies, and not the American companies that forked out the thousands to license the product.

You simply can't compare a domestic product to an imported product. Its not how the system works. Even an economics class can tell you that. Especially if the product is from a country where its cost of labor is almost on par with the country that's purchasing it.

Anime fans can wait a year and shell out the 65 - 130 dollars for the boxset of their 26 episode show.

Fans of television have to shell out that much for each SEASON. Depending on how many episodes. Either way, its expensive.

Companies have been saying this since the days of Napster.

Its been eleven years and the industry hasn't exploded yet.

A box set of a TV show season and a box set of an anime is like...almost the exact same thing. Most anime box sets I know go seasonal (If there are seasons, plural, and not just one like most anime. Naruto, for example, has a box set per season)

Cartoons are, on a whole, cheaper to make then say, a movie that cost many millions of dollars. Both have their creations fees of different kinds, the DVD sales help supplement. Anime isn't some special snowflake of costing shitloads to get to us. Yes, anime has to pay for importing, etc. I saw War of the Worlds on sale for $10, and I bet it cost WAY more to get made then any anime out there. Of course it's not excatly the same, but compariosn can be made. (And I still say, the fact that you can buy two seasons worth of Justice League for $35 ish...yeah. That shows had HUGE production cost.)

And I'd also like ton point out some anime DO get that low (Big O, Gundam Z). So that sorta blows the whole "They can't get that low." argument out of the water.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #368 ]

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