[ SECRET POST #3021 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3021 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 093 secrets from Secret Submission Post #432.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

16. http://i57.tinypic.com/2w7239k.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

If their book is all about how strong poc women are awesome and cishet white guys are scum, about zero cis het white men are going to cry about it because none of them are going to read it.

[(Anonymous)]

lol this.

And I mean I hate to say it, but if you write a book for the purpose of glorifying WOC, and putting down white men, it frankly doesn't sound like much of a book (if your social message comes before your plot, your book is probably gonna suck). And I doubt it's going to be lining the shelves at the local superstore. No one's going to read it.

[(Anonymous)]

Or they will read it to fantasize about the girls and fap to them.

[(Anonymous)]

Certainly, none of the ones who'd read it are the ones who'd be inclined to dislike it. Just the ones who'd be inclined to cheer it.

[diet_poison]

I wouldn't read it either...I mean I'd read it if it were all about WOC and (insert whatever demographic here) being interesting characters in their own right then yes def, but if it's about putting down an entire other group of people and there's no plot or actual character development, I just wouldn't be interested.

[(Anonymous)]

To be fair, there are always people who will complain about something even if they don't read/watch/listen to it.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I can see including diverse characters in your book because you want to see more of something — ~write the book you want to read~ — because I've done that myself.

But if the entire reason you're writing a book is to make a social justice statement, ehhhh. I've read books that came off like that, and they aren't fun to read. At all. You can tell what actually inspired the author, and it wasn't the world or the characters or the plot; it's their own RIGHTEOUS FURY about some issue.

[(Anonymous)]

I assume anyone using that kind of language is 15.

[lb_lee]

I actually got a bit sore with a post like this on tumblr (focus was on queer characters instead). I DO have series where pretty much all the main characters are queer, but I don't do it to "spite" anybody. I don't believe that writing to spite my own fanbase is good for me personally OR financially, and kind of resent being told how to be a good queer by other self-righteous queers. (Well, if they even see me as properly queer; I've been accused of appropriating the queer struggle before, pre-tumblr.)

If you want to write a book where all the women are of color, JUST DO IT. Don't pat yourself on the back, don't get smug or spiteful about it, don't fantasize about how you'll make the assholes cry, JUST FUCKING DO IT. I have at least one book like that on my shelf, and I don't read it as a revenge fantasy, I read it because THE BOOK ROCKS. (It's a fantasy novel taking place in a society based off feudal Japan, so all the characters are either fantasy-Japanese, fantasy-Chinese, or fantasy-Tuareg, I think.)

Don't focus on the brilliant clever social message of your goddamn book. Get it fucking written first and then get it fucking edited, and make it fucking AWESOME.

--Rogan

[(Anonymous)]

People like this are so full of shit.

Do they not realize that there are already TONS of books like this? Barring the bashing on white cis heterosexual males, though, of course.

For example: Snow Flower and the Secret Fan

It's about Chinese women. There you go! An entire book about WOC. Wow. Much excite.

No it doesn't bash on white males. Because guess what? They're not included because some of us are smart enough to realize that the entire world doesn't revolve around white males.

And when you're writing a book about WOC in order to make white men cry, guess what? You're making it about the white mens again.

Why are people such dipshits?

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh. You know, cis het white men had no choice about how they were born too, right?

[kallanda_lee]

this shouldn't be a sectret. I mean, they can write it, but you know it will be bad.

[comradesmiler]

People would like to read about strong POC women.
People don't want to read about assholes.
(Although twilight and 50 shades exist...)

[anonymouslyyours]

All literature is some kind of propaganda, whether the author or reader is conscious of it or not. I'm finding it hilarious and telling that this is where you disapprove of an author getting excited that you can use fiction to communicate their real world values.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel totally crazy here, but honestly I'm assuming anyone who says something like this is going to be pretty young. So, what's wrong if they're expressing they're frustration and want to write books with characters in it that aren't white, or male? Go kids.

[feotakahari]

It's not nearly as bad as this, but I just read an article by someone who wrote a series full of female characters who fight hand-to-hand, often against larger male opponents, and win. She really pushed how feminist it is to not have female characters fight using "fairy sparkles," and I just felt like "Good job. You get a cookie." I've written women who fight up close, at range, with magic, from stealth, or just by strategizing and giving orders, and I never needed to make a big deal of it.

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: cuddly koala asleep on a branch, with text: “One day I’m gonna write a book and all the main characters are gonna be strong POC women and they will make all the cis het whilte men cry …”

Secret Text: I think anyone who posts this and is older than 15 is an idiot. If you want to write characters only to represent political statements, you’re not writing fiction, you’re writing propaganda.

[solticisekf]

Well, Les Miseeables has a strong political message. I mean you can write a book about strong non white women, just add some other ideas to it. Love, death, the usual.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Most of the POC writers I read have better things to do with their characters than to explicitly put down white men.

Yeah,

[(Anonymous)]

Any book that you write that you're trying to intentionally deliver a "moral" is gonna be shit.

A couple original projects I'm working on do heavily feature LGBT, mentally ill and/or POC characters and it is partially motivated by thinking "I'd like to see more people like this represented in fiction."

Mainly this means when I'm in the concept stage of making characters (like when I have an idea for a character in an 90's grunge band who becomes creates functioning alchemy [that was a really random example, I'm not actually writing that] I might think "What if I make them bisexual/black/etc. ?" and then possibly decide "Why not?") It just means I make a conscious effort to not fall back on a WHITE STRAIGHT MALE CHRISTIAN default when I can help it.

But foremost, when you're creating characters you need to ensure that above all else they're interesting and fleshed out (whether they be gay, straight, Latino etc.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a cishet white guy (from a fairly privileged background on top of that, too). I know I can't speak for everyone in my demographic -- far form it -- but my response to finding a good book with strong women of color, or gay people, or transgender people, as protagonists is, usually, 'awesome.' I have enjoyed many books from perspectives like that (as well as other media -- I'm currently a big fan of Kamala Khan/Ms. Marvel, for instance).

I do have to admit that a book with strong women of color as protagonists where the main theme is 'look at how cishet white guys suck and are awful and horrible and hate these great women for doing the right thing because they're evil' would get a different response from me, but it's unlikely to be tears. More likely rolling my eyes and putting it back on the shelf, or maybe feeling a bit down that someone feels so much hate I can't do much of anything about.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't most books include representations of political statements, though? Under your definition, every classic work of literature is just propaganda.

a

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of think this is a great motivation to start. You now need to move away from the HATING and MAKING CRY and work on putting your passionate feelings about what matters into a story and making the characters real. Having a message doesn't mean you don't need to learn skills like story telling and good grammar and how to write compelling characters. But it can be motivation. I think anger has sometimes motivated me to write some good stories, but it can't be the only motivation and it doesn't make hard work and practice unnecessary. :-3

[(Anonymous)]

"Strong", "POC", and "women" aren't great examples of political statements. IA with the sentiment though, thankfully I haven't come across many people who come close to the strawman.