fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3085 ]

[ SECRET POST #3085 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3085 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #441.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Who's your favorite character? Why?
What's your favorite canon pairing?
What's your favorite non-canon pairing?
What's your favorite theme/storyline/scene/dialogue (choose whichever you want or add your own)?

Bonus: Come up with a head-canon for a character/race/nationality (choose as applicable).

1) Aragorn, because nobility
2) Eowyn/Faramir
3) I have none that I really care about
4) The weight of suffering / experience / mortality / pain / evil

I like Aragorn's nobility too. Eowyn/Faramir is a wonderful pairing. What appeals to you about them?

Hm. Well, first of all, I love them both as characters - they're both very likeable. They both have a lot of that same nobility of spirit as Aragorn, and fierce but also deeply compassionate and intelligent. Second I think they make a good match - each can really deeply understand what the other's been through, and they have similar outlooks on life. Third they've been through such dark shit it's just nice to see them happy.

But, I mean, really, at the end of the day, if you give me two wounded but fundamentally noble and decent characters falling in love and quietly finding solace in each other, I'm going to love it. That's just a natural fact. I love that kind of thing.

Fave Character - Aragorn, aka Strider (at least in the books). I liked his mysteriousness and also his doomed-to-heartbreak love for an elf. Good angst gets me every time.

Canon Pairing - Aragorn/Arwen (see above)

Fave non-canon pairing - none. I'm not really into Tolkein for the romance, though obvs I like Aragorn/Arwen.

Fave quote - I just adore the opening paragraph of The Hobbit. It's so warm and cozy and perfect: In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole and that means comfort.

I like Arwen/Aragorn too.

What appeals to you most about Tolkien?

Adventure, friendship, nobility, good vs. evil, characters that are morally ambiguous, wonderful prose...I love Tolkein.

SA

Haha, even though I can't spell his name tonight.

Boromir, because without his fall from grace the entire Fellowship would have blundered to the Black Gates and been slaughtered.
Legolas/Gimli
Aragorn/Boromir (I have a thing for impossible ships).
Favourite chapter, bar none, is "The Council of Elrond." I can read just that over and over and over again.

Hahahahaha. In what world is Legolas/Gimli canon?

A friendship is still a ship. They're my favourite ___ship, so I listed 'em.

OP of thread

I think you're absolutely right. Legolas/Gimli's friendship is epic and certainly worthy of being a fave. :)

Nah, at least not in common usage (as I'm sure you know, the "/" is where the term "slash" comes from).

But I do love their friendship.

Legolas/Gimli! Considering that the two of them never married anyone else and ended up traveling together and then going to Valinor together, I'd say it is as close to canon as anything.

Boromir is awesome. I really love his character. And Aragorn/Boromir is something I read too (I think I ship Aragorn with just about everyone).

Tom Bombadil, maybe, because he's just sort of weird and there and nothing to do with the big myth arc. (Honorable mentions to Ghân-buri-Ghân, Treebeard, and Beorn for similar reasons.)
Tom/Goldberry
What is this "noncanon"? ...Merry/Eowyn?
The Púkel-men story in Unfinished Tales.

I love Merry/Eowyn's friendship a lot. I've been meaning to reread Tom's part of the book. I only read it that one time, and I don't remember it very well. I love reading meta trying to explain him though. Have you read any and do you have a favorite?

A+ on the Pukel-men. I really liked their friendship with the people of Haleth. I wish Tolkien had managed to add it into the Silmarillion proper.

Favourite Character: I always have trouble choosing, but in the end it's probably Pippin. Child!me glomed onto him so hard, for his bravery and mischief and irrepressible nature, and how he grows more serious over the course of things but never loses his basic optimism.

Runners up would be Beregond (choosing to commit treason to save Faramir's life), Éowyn (courage and determination), Thranduil (feyness and sheer stubbornness), Elrond (who does more work than anyone to keep Middle Earth afloat, and so rarely gets listened to) and Treebeard (I just love the idea of Ents, and how slow they are, and how deadly when pushed)

Favourite Canon Pairing: Éowyn/Faramir. I just love that little bit of brightness in both their lives after all the absolute shit they'd just gone through

Favourite Non-Canon Pairing: Gimli/Legolas. I just really adore their developing friendship, and the fact that they sail into the West together, and just how bizarre and perfect they are for where they come from

Favourite Theme: Coming home changed from war, especially with the hobbits. How both 'The Hobbit' and 'Lord of the Rings' show how changed these characters become, and how difficult (Bilbo) and sometimes impossible (Frodo) it can be to fit back in afterwards, but also how some people slot back in almost perfectly (Sam), and how some people fit back in but also keep contact with the wider world (Merry and Pippin). I just like the development across the stories, and then the return to the Shire to show the aftermath.

Favourite Storyline: Merry & Pippin's storyline in Two Towers. It's always my first choice for rereading, and the part of the books that stuck hardest in my head as a kid.

Favourite Dialogue/Quote: "There's some good in this world, Mr Frodo, and it's worth fighting for." ---Samwise Gamgee

Ooh, we have a lot of similars. Beregond's loyalty to Faramir gets me every time. Eowyn is amazing. I didn't understand Thranduil at first but he and Elrond are definitely favorites of mine. Treebeard gives me a lot to think about. And Pippin is an excellent character, with an excellent character arc.

I love Eowyn/Faramir too. And I agree, they both deserved some happiness after all they'd been through. Gimli/Legolas's friendship is one of the best friendships I've ever read. I'm curious if you were at all bothered by Kili/Tauriel or if you don't think it's relevant to the Gimli/Legolas friendship (or don't care for the movies).

I think you can definitely see Tolkien's real world war experience shining through with the Hobbits and the war. It was nice at the end of the book to see how the Hobbits could take out Saurman without needing any help from the other races - how much confidence and leadership they returning four learned. It feels to me like a very unusual way to go - to have them survive the war and do all the celebrating but then come home to have to fight off this last little skirmish while the rest of the world is healing. It surprised me but I quite enjoyed it.

What are your thoughts on Theoden and Denethor? I love Pippin's loyalty to Faramir, and Theoden's kindness to Merry.

I adore Beregond. I don't think Pippin knew it, but it was a truly terrible decision he was asking Beregond to make (not only to disobey his lord during a time of war, but to disobey his lord during an actual battle, fight his own people during an actual battle, and even kill his own in one of the most holy places in the city), and Beregond made it in no halfway fashion. That he got to go with Faramir afterwards, that Aragorn leavened the exile that way, made me very happy.

Regarding Kíli/Tauriel, I have to admit that I gave up on the Hobbit movies after DoS. Nothing to do with that pair, actually, I just thought the movies were a hot mess sprawling all over the storyline, and I didn't like what they did to either Thranduil, Legolas or Thorin much. However, what I saw of Kíli/Tauriel in DoS I didn't mind. I thought they were really cute, actually. It was Legolas I had major trouble with in relation to that relationship. The crude love triangle was a problem for me. On their own, I don't think I'd have minded Kíli/Tauriel, but in the middle of the rest of the mess, I just gave up on the movies.

I did quite like the Scouring of the Shire as well. It doesn't fit with how we think a story should go, a strange little skirmish after the climax has already happened, but I think it was right for them to realise that even the idyllic Shire had been affected by the war, and to have them have to clean up on their own terms. I liked that they'd changed enough to be able to preserve what they loved, as well as what everyone else did.

Theoden and Denethor ... I like them both, actually. Theoden I just admire, he came back from a terrible experience straight into the middle of open conflict, and he got his act together with all speed and grace. He's a bit rigid in places (Éowyn), but that's the culture he comes from, and he's just inherently a noble person.

Denethor is a slightly more complicated matter, but I think it's worth noting that we see him at literally the worst moments of his life, after he's been psychologically tortured by Sauron through the palantir for pretty much the entire war. By the time he loses the plot altogether at the end, (he thinks) he's lost both his sons, his city is in the middle of being overrun, and Sauron has battered his psyche down to nothing by showing him the worst of all possible outcomes. He goes mad, and he almost kills Faramir all over again in the midst of his suicide. But. But. Before that, he fought. He didn't give in to madness until the very end, and he didn't give in to Sauron at all. The sheer strength of will that must have taken ... Pippin barely survived one encounter with a palantir (though he also didn't give in), Saruman fell straight into Sauron's camp after his use of one, and even Aragorn only dared it sparingly. Denethor held out all that time. It drove him mad, it drove him to suicide at the worst possible time, it almost killed Faramir, but before that ... Denethor kept his city and his people armed and ready to fight, refusing to submit to Mordor, despite months of mental torture, the loss of Boromir's brightening influence, and the loss of Boromir himself. Faramir was just the last straw. I think the only other person we see show equal or better mental fortitude is Frodo himself. So ... I think I respect Denethor still. He wasn't a nice or sane man when we saw him, but given the circumstances I think that was understandable, and far greater creatures than he had cracked under less pressure. He fought as long as he could.

Re: Tolkien

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-16 02:21 (UTC) - Expand

Elrond. I like that he's half-elven, that he's compassionate despite everything that's happened to him, he's a good father (and probably a good husband/leader/etc.), he's a healer and also a warrior if needed. Elrond is all around the best character ever to me.

Luthien/Beren. I love that Luthien is so active in getting what she wants. I like that Beren listens to her. I like their two cultures, and their whole epic love.

Aragorn/Faramir. I love hurt/comfort and I like that Aragorn saved Faramir. I like that Aragorn is like everything scholar!Faramir has dreamed of. Faramir is my second favorite character. I love the loyalty and wisdom in him and surrounding his character (including Beregond saving him). I love the idea of the Stewards faithfully waiting so long and then their king finally returns.

The Houses of Healing - see above. I love seeing that Aragorn is known to be king not by his warrior ability but because of his healing. And that he saves Faramir and Eowyn, and how he teases Merry. And we get to see Eomer and Eowyn interact.

Head-canon: My headcanon is that Elrond has a strong affinity for water, stemming from Ulmo's blessing upon Tuor and his line. He lives by the sea or by waterfalls - anywhere there is a lot of water, which will obey his command. Also, he has a more Sindarin outlook, despite being raised by Feanorians. He forgave them but he didn't forget what they did either.

I also headcanon that Gil-galad is far more Teleri than most people know because his mom was Teleri and he was raised by Cirdan. They both had a hand in shaping his worldview. I think this is part of the reason his reign lasted so long.

Elrond is pretty awesome and one of my favorites. Considering all he's been through and is still going through, he's amazingly strong to still be holding it together. I love your headcanon for him and for Gil-galad as well.

Luthien/Beren is my favorite canon pairing too. They are awesome.

In my experience, a lot of people really love the idea of Maglor as Elros and Elrond's "true" dad - that they headcanon Elrond as disliking his biological dad because Earendil abandoned him, and that Elrond thinks of Maglor as his dad. This is one headcanon that rubs me the wrong way (though I would never tell anyone that it's wrong or that they shouldn't like it if that's their thing - I just personally really don't like it).

I think it has a lot to do with how popular the Feanorians and the Noldor are. But I love the Sindar and the Teleri. I think of Earendil as a soldier who had to go away in a time of war. I actually headcanon that Elrond and Elros are part of the reason he left - that he had these two children he had to care for and the absolute last thing he wanted was for them to grow up as he did - to have their world destroyed by Morgoth. He and Elwing both had traumatic childhoods. He would know that even if he could keep Sirion safe for a bit, Morgoth would come eventually. There was only hope across the sea. Even if it tore him up to leave, his children's happiness and survival depended on Morgoth's evil being overthrown. He owed it to them and to his people to give his all in the hope of peace and a future.

I also feel that Elrond is such a forgiving, kind, understanding character that even if he had felt like Earendil did abandon him, he would never dislike him for that or hold it against him. I am still working through understanding Elwing's actions, so it's difficult for me to rationalize what she did. But I feel like Elrond would understand. He would understand why his father did what he did. I think even as a child, he would've had the ability to see into his mother's heart and understand her. Elrond has had to make some of his own terrible choices in his life; he would understand. I think he would be proud to be the son of Earendil. And he would be proud of his Mannish lineages. I do think he loved and valued Maglor (and Maedhros!) as family - just not as fathers.

I also headcanon Gil-galad and Tuor being friends. I am fascinated by the idea of Idril and Gil-galad interacting (I lean towards the Silmarillion-version of Gil-galad being Fingon's son; it's more interesting to me to think of Fingon marrying a Sindar/Teleri woman, and of Gil-galad being a first cousin to Idril to contrast to Maeglin).

1. Back to having Celebrimbor as my favorite character. What can I say, he's such an interesting and tragic figure.

2. Beren/Luthien

3. Melkor/Sauron or Celebrimbor/Sauron with Maedhros/Fingon a close third.

4. The whole storyline with Celebrimbor and Annatar. I like tragic. Also Beren and Luthien and Finrod. Turin is pretty interesting too. Also the fall of Gondolin. I like lots of things.

Bonus: I have very clear headcanons of what certain characters look like. Sauron pre-Numenor was blonde and kind of muscular from working in the forge. Celebrimbor had the dark hair of his father and grandfather, also muscular for an elf, and he was several inches taller than Annatar. Finrod was also blonde.

I think Celebrimbor is probably the character I have the most headcanon for. I see him as both wanting to escape his family legacy and yet still part of him wants to live up to the greatness of his grandfather. I think Annatar played into desires of his that were genuinely good. He wanted to protect his people. But he also wanted to achieve greatness. And someone on Tumblr suggested that maybe he was actually suspicious of Annatar but pushed it aside because he thought that those suspicions were the Feanorian side of him and not a good thing. And I really like that idea.

Edited 2015-06-16 01:43 (UTC)

I've poked around some of the art depicting Melkor/Sauron; Sauron/Celebrimbor and it does spark thought. Sauron's treated as a symbol of evil in the books, so it's interesting to consider him in the same light as you would Gandalf. (And it also makes me love Luthien even more for kicking his ass.)

I'm actually more curious about Celebrimbor's time in Nargothrond - about his relationship with his dad and uncles, and Orodreth, Finduilas, Finrod, etc. What did he think of his dad and uncle turning everyone against Finrod? Was he aware of Luthien's imprisonment? How was he treated when his uncle and dad were banished?

And was he on Balar when his other uncles attacked Sirion? Did he get to meet baby Elrond and Elros, see Elwing wearing the Silmaril? Did he consider accepting the Valar's call to go back to Valinor after the First Age? It's interesting (and sad) to think he might've stayed in the hopes of redeeming himself and his house but then ended up making things worse (and yet also did redeem because he enticed Sauron to make a ring that ended up undoing Sauron). Lots of food for thought.

I think the interesting thing with Sauron is that in the Silmarillion, he has it much more together than he does in LOTR. It is all part of Tolkien's ideas about evil corrupting. He starts out as being pretty attractive, and in the Silmarillion he's kind of the brains of the operation. He plans in order to accomplish what Morgoth desires. And he's quite good at seducing people into getting what he wants. Until after Numenor. Then things start to fall apart for him and more and more he becomes his master in terms of not being able to accomplish his goals because he's short-sighted and acts with less thought.

And Luthien is badass. She kicks Sauron's ass and then manages to knock out Morgoth. She's probably my second favorite Tolkien character.

I wish we had more on Celebrimbor's time in Nargathrond too. Really, anything more about his character. There is so little and I find him so fascinating. He's so very Feanorian and yet so very different from his father and grandfather and uncles.

But I find his time in Eregion and his end the most fascinating because I have a thing for tragedy. Every time you read a fic, you know what is coming and yet Celebrimbor can't see it until it is too late, though he does manage to redeem himself in the end. And I think it is all the more tragic because he really was fooled. He wasn't purposefully trying to help Sauron or do anything besides help his people. He wasn't his grandfather or his father and uncles. And yet he had some of the same faults and Sauron knew exactly how to use them to his advantage.

Re: Tolkien

(Anonymous) - 2015-06-16 03:25 (UTC) - Expand

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