fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3222 ]

[ SECRET POST #3222 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3222 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Death Parade]

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[From Dusk Till Dawn: The Series]

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[Sean Bean/Accused]

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[Bones/Sleepy Hollow]

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17. [WARNING for abuse/torture]

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18. [WARNING for suicide]

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19. [WARNING for non-con]

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20. [WARNING for pedophilia and incest]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #460.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

They're mostly assholes, but really so are most feminists. Difference is the MRA are assholes in order to fight for me and people like me. I kinda don't think I deserve that, so either I don't hate them and become a self-serving dick, supporting a bunch of assholes just because they make me feel better about being a man, or I do hate them and by extenton continue to hate myself, but in that self sacrifice I become a better person.

My sense (O fellow man) has never in the slightest been that the MRA movement is interested in fighting for me and people like me. My sense has never been that they care about men qua men. To the extent that they do, it's on the basis of an understanding of what makes a man that has always seemed obviously false to me. I do not think that they care for the person. I think they are more interested than anything in messing with feminists.

It is frustrating that there is no good, decent network and movement around supporting & fighting for men* - I do find myself jealous sometimes of the kind of support network that feminism has built up for women, because it's kind of amazing - but MRAs are a solution that's worse than the problem.

*as an adjunct to feminism, not something that replaces or is more important than feminism

I understand being jealous of the support networks and I always worry that my reaction to hearing about it sounds harsh. Because I wish men would do a better job of supporting each other in more than insulting feminists. Women have resources like women's shelters because they fought and worked hard for them in the face of people who thought they didn't really need them. Men need to step up and do the same thing instead of deciding that women should make similar resources for men in order to be fair. I know that comes across as sort of every gender for themselves and "well we had to deal with that so now it's your turn", but I do wish we could all help each other with these things. It's just that the way so many MRAs sit back and complain about feminists not doing this work for them and not doing anything to make these things happen themselves is really frustrating. If someone can point me to a men's group that is actually trying to support men and not just complaining that women aren't doing it for them, I would gladly support them.

I agree with all of that. I probably should have been clearer that I was criticizing the MRA movement there. I don't in any way think that it's feminists' responsibility to build those support networks. My point is just, the MRA movement is not doing that, in any way, at all. Because they suck.

Oh I wasn't criticizing you or anything. Mostly just reminded of this topic and feeling bad about how I haven't yet found a way to express this without coming across the way blitzwing interpreted my comment, which I completely understand. Part if the problem is that it seems like MRAs are less varied than feminists. There's a lot--a lot--of terrible feminist rhetoric out there and I always try to make it clear that I'm only referring to certain kinds of feminism since there's so much disagreement between different schools of feminist thought. But MRAs, partly because there are less of them, seem to have less variety in their arguments, and that makes it easier to fall into the trap of generalizing about them and by extension seem to be generalizing about all men. So maybe it's easier for a criticism of MRAs to sound more universal.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

So, what's your opinion on Earl Silverman? He ran a men's domestic violence shelter, and committed suicide because the government and others don't perceive male-victim DV as serious, and don't allocate funding for it.

You probably think that his complaint isn't real. And yet over and over again, feminists consistently speak of domestic violence in a way that completely erases the possibility of a female abuser. They do the same thing with rape. Many feminists will even tell victims, male or female, that they are derailing and statistically insignificant, not worth talking about, if they were victimized by a female.

"Women have resources because they worked hard, men are just lazy and toxic."

Sure. There is no bias that men aren't and can't be real victims, or that women can't victimize others. I can't even count how many times I've been told that I wasn't really abused because "women just can't hit as hard as men." No, it's just laziness and ~toxic patriarchy~.

Go fuck yourself.

Re: Ok,but /why/ do you hate mras?

(Anonymous) - 2015-10-31 01:41 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok,but /why/ do you hate mras?

blitzwing - 2015-10-31 01:41 (UTC) - Expand

That stuff is shitty as hell when feminists do it, yeah.

You probably think that his complaint isn't real.

No, not at all. I was going to give domestic violence against men not being taken seriously as an example of the serious problems that don't get enough attention because too many MRAs are busy insulting women instead of actually doing something to help men, but I already felt like I was rambling.

I don't think men are just lazy and toxic. I do think that there is more of a history of women working together to advocate for themselves, but the reasons for that are varied and complex and I think they have more to do with the perceptions of each gender than any inherent difference between them.

There is no bias that men aren't and can't be real victims, or that women can't victimize others.

You're putting words in my mouth. I don't believe that at all. I'm really sorry you've had to deal with that.

Re: Ok,but /why/ do you hate mras?

blitzwing - 2015-10-31 02:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Ok,but /why/ do you hate mras?

sarillia - 2015-10-31 02:17 (UTC) - Expand

>Sure. There is no bias that men aren't and can't be real victims, or that women can't victimize others. I can't even count how many times I've been told that I wasn't really abused because "women just can't hit as hard as men." No, it's just laziness and ~toxic patriarchy~

... I mean, yes. It is ~toxic patriarchy~ that makes people believe all that. To believe it's anything else, or that women somehow have enough political power to make the needs of men seem insignificant is a fucking joke. The reason men aren't taken seriously as victims is a combination of misogyny and homophobia, and a "man up!" culture. feminists aren't the ones perpetuating the idea that men who are victims are just crybabies, that's alllll on the patriarchy, sorry.

And yes, the men who consistently complain about female rape victims, or breast cancer getting "all the attention" should actually put their time and money where their mouth is and raise awareness for those causes if they're so significant. To just sit around and whine that one group gets attention and you don't, when that other group has worked their sweat and blood into a movement for hundreds of years is ridiculous. YES, it's laziness.

If "mens rights activists" actually gave a shit about men's rights, they could address the ways patriarchy hurts men, including the way it devalues male victims of violence. But they don't, they'd rather sit on their thumbs and whine about how women are privileged and they won't sleep with them. Or call men who don't agree with them "beta" or "cuckolds" (that definitely respects men who aren't traditionally masculine and discriminated against, amirite?) Because to acknowledge that those mean ole ~feminazis~ might be right, that patriarchy and gender roles being what they are are the reason men are oftentimes treated like shit, is too much for them.

Awww poor BB!

Found the feminist asshole

I don't think that's a useful response.

Hating them doesn't require you to hate yourself for your sex. Hating yourself for something you can't control is pretty damn unhealthy.

Take this from someone who's trying to climb out of the pit of pointless self loathing and shake off the damage it's done to my mind.

No, but if you don't hate them in spite of what assholes they are, and the reason you don't hate them is because you feel some comfort and support from them then you're a selfish asshole. If you hate yourself and the thing that makes you hate yourself less is something as abhorant as the MRA, you have to know that you deserve to hate yourself. I can hate them, I can reject the comfort and support, I can choose that and I have to choose that but by doing that I have nothing else telling me it's ok to be me. You see the catch 22 I'm in here? Find comfort in who I am in a group who prove I don't deserve to be comforted or supported, or be a better person and reject the on;y group that seems to care about my shitty little issues.

They don't give you support. They don't care about your issues. They can't help you. I don't think anyone outside of feminism can give you want you need, and feminism isn't there to be your crutch.

So what are you going to do now?

The answer is to find a different way not to hate yourself.

I don't know why you hate yourself, or what your issues are, but I gotta think there's someplace else to stop hating yourself.

Just because a group that claims to support your interests is actually terrible doesn't mean you as a person don't deserve to be comforted or supported. Just because you happen to be male and they happen to be male doesn't have to mean they're the only people who will care about things that effect you.

There have been numerous horrible groups I've seen that have claimed to support the problems of people like myself. I reject them because they do harm, but that doesn't mean I have to decide that I don't deserve comfort or support and I have to hate myself.

I am not them, I share one 'group' or 'demographic' with them. You are not the MRM.

Then stop supporting the MRA? It's not rocket science.

There are more important things than your comfort. When men start to get this half this shit will disappear.

But dude's mental healthy and well-being ultimately is important, setting aside gender issues. Dude is a human being. That shouldn't stop feminists from feministing, and it shouldn't justify supporting the MRA movement - but it does matter, and I don't think it can be written off as 'discomfort'. Mental suffering is real.

Telling people that is not helpful either, fuck off.

Your response is just adding more harmful attitudes that it has to be "us vs. them" or that if we're helping one group with something we can't help another group with something".

When people start understanding- yes people. Not men people like you even- start getting that it doesn't have to be "us vs them" or "one or the other" that's when this shit will disappear.

Fuck. Off.

You are not helping.

Also self loathing is not "discomfort". Self loathing is a very harmful and very painful thing that nobody should have to deal with regardless of sex or gender or anything else.

I wouldn't want anyone suffering from this to be told that their problem is just "not important right now".

I'm sorry, I just don't have any sympathy for you. You have the entire world telling you it's ok to be you, that it's ok to enjoy the privileges of being a male, If that's not enough, if you need feminism or the mrm to also kowtow to your masculinity, well, I just cant empathise with that.

Yyyyyeah, try not dictating to other people what their experience of the world is. You are painfully wrong and being an asshole about it.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3222 ]

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This is the anon AYRT replied to

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