[ SECRET POST #3309 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3309 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 053 secrets from Secret Submission Post #473.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

See I know logically that refugees, even the men, are in desperate need of help and that as right thinking people we need to support our government letting these people in.

But I also know that womens safety needs to be our top priority. We live in a world shitty enough for women and it's our role to do everything we can to change that.

And I honestly can't reconcile that. Yes, it may be a small minority of Muslim men doing this, but I'm reminded of the M&M analogy used to shoot down the #Notallmen. Even if it's only 10% you wouldn't take a handful. And even if it is only 10 men out of millions that we let into the country, that is still 10 acts of abhorrent violence (I can't be bothered now that I'm this far in to make the necessary 1st level comment and appropriate trigger warning, but but see what I'm driving at, right?) that happen because we chose to ignore that risk. Of course if we send these Muslim men back, they will be tortured and murdered, and that will happen because we treat them like criminals because of their race, religion, and culture.

TL;DR. I feel like I need to be either racist or sexist in one small or large way or another, and I can't figure out a third option and I can't decide what the lesser evil is.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Oh fuck off troll

nayrt

[(Anonymous)]

Nothing in that paragraph sounded trollish. This is an issue a lot of people are struggling with reconciling.

Re: nayrt

[kallanda_lee]

This.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

This reallllllly doesn't feel like a troll.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

my position would be "have the social and state structure - in terms of state resources, in terms of dedicated resources for assimilation, education, and integration, and in terms of law and order and security services - to deal with the influx of refugees" but i understand that having a functioning state is not a particularly popular thing these days

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

resources for assimilation

So you think OP should go with racism?

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

That just isn't a realistic position. Thousands of refugees every day is too much to handle.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[feotakahari]

The more that people believe they can leave ISIS-controlled territories and be safe elsewhere, the less control ISIS has. The less control ISIS has, the fewer atrocities they're capable of committing against women and minorities. They're already seeing brain drain as doctors and other vital occupations leave their territory, and I want to see them bled dry.

TW: Rape mention

[(Anonymous)]

Except you don't need to be either racist or sexist. You're trapped in the sort of thinking that ruins a lot of good movements. The poor actions of a minority of a group of people don't mean that the entire group is deserving of hate.

It's possible to think that refugees who are rapists deserve to be punished without thinking all refugees are rapists or that all male refugees deserve to be punished. It really doesn't require any mental gymnastics to think that way.

Re: TW: Rape mention

[(Anonymous)]

So what do we do? Let them all in, and the ones that commit rapes we send back? That choice to ignore the risk lead to a fucking rape. Sure, we then know he's a bad one and can punish him (If we can find him and convict him) but that is still a woman who has been violated because we chose to let a rapist in the country.

Re: TW: Rape mention

[blitzwing]

It really doesn't require any mental gymnastics to think that way.

It clearly kinda does for a lot of people. That's why people fall into stereotyping groups they don't belong to, over and over again. Because they're not able to easily discern differences in members of groups they don't belong to.

It's the phenomenon of out-group homogeneity bias.

Re: TW: Rape mention

[(Anonymous)]

Something I noticed this thread failed to mention are the number of refugee women who have been saved from violent situations. Being forced to stay in Syria would increase the chances of them being killed, injured, or raped.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

I don't like the M&M analogy personally, but since you're using it, let's expand. The analogy is about choosing whether or not to date men. That's a vastly different situation from taking in refugees. Men aren't going to be left open to danger by not being dated. To use the M&M analogy and make it about refugees, it would have to be changed to something like, the M&Ms represent people and you eating them represents letting them into your country. Lots of innocent people will be in a life-threatening situation if you choose not to let them in, so with that in mind are you still going to not take any? More people probably would, even if it meant they might be poisoned.

Absolutely...

[(Anonymous)]

...

HARAM

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

#AllMen because all men should be held accountable. Ever heard of intersectionalism?

Nobody "ignored" a risk that was known, if you're talking about Sylvester in Köln.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Refugees coming from whatever country to whatever country should get a primer of "these things will get you in lots of trouble if you do them here." "Yes, we know they were okay where you're from or even if they weren't okay where you're from at least you didn't come in for nearly the amount of shit you will come in for if you try them here, DON'T DO THEM or you will go to jail also people generalize so you make it harder for other refugees to come here." Yeah, it's kind of offensive to say because it's not like only refugees do that kind of shit, every country has home-grown assholes, and if I were on the run I'd be offended at this kind of warning, even sandwiched between "welcome home" speeches, but it's still necessary.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

if I were on the run I'd be offended at this kind of warning

Personally, I wouldn't. I mean, if I for some reason had to flee Canada and move to Cuba, say, I would not take it personally if Cuba felt the need to give me a good, thorough primer on How To Live In Cuba And Not Fuck Up Legally Or Socially.

Beyond this, though, I agree with what you're saying.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Not much to say except that I get where you're coming from here, and I'm struggling with it too.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Are 100% of them men who are native to/already living in your country 100% safe for women 100% of the time? Does letting in refugees actually increase the chances any given woman will be sexually assaulted by any measurable degree from what it already was?

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Does letting in refugees actually increase the chances any given woman will be sexually assaulted by any measurable degree from what it already was?

Fucking yes! This is being proven over and over again! Rates of sexual assault have gone up, and they're almost without fail migrants perpetrating them. Of course it's never 100% safe, but that number is sure way fucking down now versus before the refugee flood. Sorry.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it bloody well increases the rape statistics. Even the statistics from previous years show that the men coming from places like Iraq and Somalia are overwhelmingly responsible for committing sexual crimes when compared to other national groups (over 10 times more likely to be the assailant). And that was before the current flood of migrants.

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

If (made up numbers for example only) 5 % of any population cause 40% of a proplem, any problem, then you have an issue that needs to be dealt with within that subset of the population. Don't muddy your thinking with, 'But other people do this too!'

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting how the other anons fails to provide links...

Re: I'm struggling with the refugee vs women situation

[(Anonymous)]

OP, you are talking about people who come from an actual rape culture, as it is currently being defined. A woman on her own, not chaperonened, who takes a drink, smiles at a man, flirts, or horror of horrors, shows skin is a target for assault. She is valueless as a person.

As a woman, if you live in any country opening doors to them, you must insist that all refugees are taught in a mandatory orientation course that this mindset is not on. End of story. The idea that these courses are voluntary is appalling.

It's simple really. It's not "-ist". It's not demeaning to anyone. It's as necessary as teaching rules of the road or how money is tendered for goods and services.