[ SECRET POST #3406 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3406 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 056 secrets from Secret Submission Post #487.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

I suspect it's because "no doesn't really mean no" is a cultural narrative that is really only applied to women.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly, there is no rape culture that is applied to men.

[(Anonymous)]

I assume you're being sarcastic, both in saying that on the surface and in saying that persistence is rape culture.

[(Anonymous)]

No, I'm not. There is no rape culture against men, and part of the rape culture against women is the "No doesn't mean no" myth.

[(Anonymous)]

So what's the difference between courting someone (ie like someone above who said they enjoy playing hard to get in order to make the other person work for it) and the supposed rape culture in 'no doesn't mean no'.

I mean, if the person is just trying to make the other person like them, and isn't doing anything that remotely qualifies as sexual assault or rape or whathaveyou, is that a bad thing? How do people date if they give up right away when they like someone?

"Do you like me?" "No." *moves on to the next body in line* "Do you like me?"

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT, but I would really appreciate men actually listening when I say I'm not interested. I'm too ugly to pull off the "no means give chase" thing, and yet guys still do it. Like, the fact that they keep trying when I say "no thanks" scares the shit out of me, because it's always "oh baby you don't mean it like that" while they corner me, and "oh, so you won't date [fill in the blank] guys" while they follow me in their cars, or just plain following me home on foot (I don't have a car) so I have to double back through alleys and shit. One time the guy followed me six blocks and finally said he'd leave me alone if I gave him a hug. I did, even though I was putting myself in danger, and went home and cried. It's like, if no doesn't mean no, what's left for people who genuinely aren't interested? Spikes that spray mace when someone says "hey baby"? Honestly, I'm willing to reconsider the guys that take "no" as "no," even if I feel like an idiot saying "I'm sorry I brushed you off, but you listening made me change my mind, if you still want to go out and don't think I'm a total nutcase that'd be awesome."

[(Anonymous)]

I notice you don't say anything about calling the police even on the guy who followed you. Why is that?

And I'd say be even blunter. Ask them what part they don't get, demand to know what part of their obsessive behavior they think is going to somehow change your mind, and basically force them to consider the ramifications of their actions.

[diet_poison]

wow. what is with this victim blaming shit.

you do realize that either of the actions you just suggested could put anon in more danger, right?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT--if I could force these guys to do anything, I wouldn't have been in danger. As for "why not call the cops?" response time generally sucks and I don't even live in a shifty area. I've called cops before, on family, at work to protect customers, on prowlers, and it takes >10-30 minutes for them to show up. Plus cops are an "in case of emergency, break glass" thing. It's how I was raised. If any of the creeps ever pulled out a knife or gun, I would've called. I have before; that's how I know response time sucks.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh for fuck's sake. So men don't get accused of rape when they're the victims? They don't get laughed at as weak? They don't get told that men can't possibly be raped? They're not forced to pay child support for their rapist's kids?

To say nothing of how prison rape (the place the term "rape culture" came from) is considered a punchline.

Yeah that really says that men can't possibly be victimized. Holy shit how can you be so ignorant and heartless?

[(Anonymous)]

The only rape culture in western countries exists towards men.

[diet_poison]

...?

[(Anonymous)]

I assume they're our resident radfem/MRA troll.

[(Anonymous)]

diet's not radfem.

[(Anonymous)]

I was referring to the anon who replied to diet.

[(Anonymous)]

technically rape culture applies to everyone, that's how it permeates a culture

the majority of victimization (though not all) as a result of rape culture falls on women though

[(Anonymous)]

Statistics show that it's about even, and that's when men speak up.

[diet_poison]

Go away. That's not what I said and not what I meant and I think you know it.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahahahaha no

[(Anonymous)]

Crud, was supposed to put this above.

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP, but I assumed it was because of this.
Well, the 'no doesn't really mean no' narrative in the mainstream, anyways. Especially since the times when it might be used are treated as novelties in the mainstream: male victims (unless the person being turned down is an axe-killer unhinged stalker, because that's the only way a guy would say no, amirite!?), and gay culture.

Plus mainstream media trends, which treat woman-getting-turned-down and man-getting-turned-down stories differently in different mediums.

There are so many examples, but the first thing that came to mind was in female-oriented comedies, where the girl is turned down or broken up with, she'll learn a lesson about self-improvement and confidence, and whether she or the guy end up together is only mildly relevant at the end. In male-oriented comedies of the same streak, the guy will often 'charm' his way into a woman's heart with persistence and increasing gifts/acts/words.*

Now, there are stories where men 'change' to get a girl - but the most mainstream, most common narratives like this (to contrast with the female-oriented comedies) in male-oriented comedies usually involve men pretending to be someone/something that they are not. See: the liar revealed storyline. The self-improvement narrative (be yourself, a self that has evolved and become stronger) is treated differently than the liar revealed storyline (be yourself, the self that she did not like in the first place, because now you've wormed your way into her heaaarrrtt).

*I know that some women like it when people prove that they are really interested. But it squicks me for personal reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there's also a big amount of not treating female stalkers as a big deal while with male stalkers it's treated as huge.

There's also that writers don't seem to know the difference between persistence and obsessiveness.

[diet_poison]

This is a good comment.

If I can add another personal perspective - I like it when guys who I'm interested in do things like be the first to text, ask if I want to hang out, etc. though this might be because I'm used to making the first move because of the number of times I've been attracted to guys more on the shy side. Showing interest, showing he's thinking about me, those are nice. But if a guy asked me out and I said no, I'd expect that to be the end of it.

[blitzwing]

No, instead men get "erection = consent".

[diet_poison]

That doesn't really come up in mainstream media, though, does it? I suppose it could be a problem in fanfic but I don't read much porn.

It is, of course, a huge problem IRL, just not really connected to mainstream media romance trends, I don't think.