fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3420 ]

[ SECRET POST #3420 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3420 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Banana Fish]

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Notes:

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01. http://i.imgur.com/i2ZEw5G.png

Phil Collins absolutely broke my heart a few years ago when he did some interview where he talks about falling into depression and was actually suicidal about how he had basically became a punchline. I had known lots of people over the years who seemed to have a profound hatred for the guy, but I had always thought it was incredibly unfair. He was and is an amazing musician. For some dumb reason, it hadn't occurred to me that he, personally, was aware of all this hate. I hope that it's true that he's coming out of retirement. If only because it means that he's in a better place, mental health wise.

Why was he a punchline? (I've always liked his stuff, but wasn't paying a lot if attention - I had no idea he was even retired).

NAYRT

The biggest reason I can think of for why he got made fun of is that his solo work he did was often seen as uncool and cheesy by a lot of people. I don't really know anything about his personal life, so I don't know if part of his being a punchline had anything to do with that, too. But anytime I saw people poke fun at him, it usually had to do with the fact they didn't like his music.

Which I never really understood-if somebody didn't care for his music, fine, but he's certainly not the first guy to write "cheesy" pop songs, so...

I personally like some of his stuff, too. I remember hearing him on the radio A LOT when I was a kid, so I kind of have a nostalgic appreciation for him as a result :p.

I think it was mainly because he had a wide popular appeal to an audience that wasn't generally considered cool or particularly creative. In an era where musicians were pushing the envelope, Phil Collins was just making bland, easily digestible soft rock. This started back when he took over Genesis after Peter Gabriel left.

Also, his singing voice is maybe not the greatest.

OP

Honestly the whole Genesis fiasco is a different animal altogether. Phil was hated by many of the "hardcore" fans of the day. My mom has been a lifelong Genesis fan and she remembers when Phil Collins took over. People saw him as a traitor for continuing the band, when really Peter Gabriel gave the rest of them no choice when he fled for solo stardom. They all seem to be really good friends, Phil himself did a lot of the drums on Peter's debut album, but yeah, it was kind of a matter of a devoted group of fans who considered themselves "alternative" and "cool" for being into the heavily stylistic, performative pieces of early Peter-era Genesis.

The criticism is entirely unwarranted, Phil knocked it out of the park with things like "Mama" and "Home By The Sea", and was producing plenty of the same sort of offbeat, strange stuff that Genesis had been known for. There's a reason why the creepy, atmospheric "Mama" isn't on the radio playlists after all, it's an amazing song but it doesn't have the mainstream appeal that things like "Turn It On Again" and "That's All" do.

As for his voice not being the greatest...obviously I'm biased but...nuh-uh. From a technical standpoint Phil Collins has an amazing voice, the different ranges he can hit, his signature lilt, he has an incredible talent in addition to being one of the best drummers around. (Any doubt on that, go check out "Drums, Drums and More Drums" on youtube, a 10 minute opus of Phil rocking out with fellow drummers.

No, Phil has gotten a lot of hate mainly for a few things:

One, "In The Air Tonight" is possibly one of the most recognizable songs in the entire world. EVERYBODY knows that iconic drumline. With popularity of that magnitude comes a proportional amount of haters.

Two, Phil Collins is...well, not model handsome. I think he's actually kind of cute, and I've always loved his sense of humour about his unassuming looks (watch the "I Can't Dance" video to see what I mean), but he's been made fun of for being short and balding basically since forever.

Three, Disney. Having hit Disney songs apparently means you're badwrongevil?

Four, South Park did some jokes that sort of cemented the whole "eww Phil Collins is stooooopid" hype train.

It's really unfortunate considering the massive success and talent this man has. When I saw him in concert, it was one of the most amazing concerts I've ever been to simply because of how high energy it was. Watching Phil run around the stage sweating bullets and emoting the entire time was just incredible. When you realize that he was doing this with a shoulder injury that made it agony for him to play the drums, and an inner-ear issue that made it hard for him to hear himself sing? All the more impressive.

Mmmm, I respect your love for Phil Collins, OP, but...

1) There are many, many songs every bit as recognizable as "In The Air Tonight", if not more so, whose artists don't get half the amount of hate that Collins gets. You're right that popularity tends to draw more attention and that some of that attention will be negative, but it's not really as simple as Collins having a popular song = haterade. Otherwise imagine how much hate Queen would get for the bassline of "Under Pressure".

2) Phil Collins is hardly the only musician of his era who is not "model handsome". Last time I checked, Brian Eno is also an old bald guy, and he wasn't exactly a hottie back in the day, either. Dude looked like Riff Raff from Rocky Horror, and yet... no hate, only respect both as a musician and a producer.

3) This might be the biggest reach of all. Tarzan is hardly the highest profile Disney movie, and other musicians have written/performed songs in more popular Disney flicks without garnering the sort of criticism Collins has received. Elton John, anyone? By your reasoning, he should be smothered under a mountain of hate for the songs from Lion King, all of which were better known than "You'll Be in My Heart".

4) Oh, honey. That episode didn't air until 2000, and I promise you that the anti-Phil Collins sentiment had been going strong for at least a decade by then. Not only are you overestimating influence of South Park, you've missed the fact that when they lampoon a famous person on the show, they're not doing so as cutting edge humor, they're doing so because it's like shooting fish in a barrel-- to score easy comedy points. Phil Collins was an easy comedy point by 2000.

I applaud your passion and dedication to the man's music, but I think that same passion clouds your ability to be objective about why people dislike him.

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(Anonymous) - 2016-05-16 21:04 (UTC) - Expand

South Park and the random internet hate machine got hold of him. He was huge in the 80s, so for a lot of these people, that's their parents' music, and everybody knows all mom and dad's music totally sucks. "Against All Odds" is a perfect song, so they can all get bent.

OP

Oh man, "Against All Odds" is one of my mom's favourite songs, and getting to see that in concert with her was amazing. <3 His performance of it was electric. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz0ImnWkyi0) The entire concert was.

Aaaaand yep, you basically summed up in two sentences what took me a bunch of paragraphs to write in a comment above. Phil Collins is a victim of the internet hate machine. "In The Air Tonight" being as iconic as it is, brings a proportional amount of haters.

Not to mention the ridiculous "eww old music". Give me Eric Clapton, Peter Gabriel, Fleetwood Mac, Yes and more over 90% of the stuff produced today. (Older music has a soul I feel that's missing in a lot of today's stuff to be honest, even though I absolutely love a lot of today's music too.)

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purpleseas - 2016-05-16 22:52 (UTC) - Expand

Ergh, that's awful. I too hope he's doing better on that front.

Oh man, that's sad to hear.

I don't know much about Phil Collins, but I'm still in love with his songs from Disney's Tarzan. Are they cheesy and on-the-nose? Yeah, but I don't care, I still listen to them and think they're great.

If you like his stuff from Tarzan you'd probably like a bunch of his other stuff. :) He has a lot of ballads like he sings in Tarzan, and if you enjoy faster paced pop songs he has plenty of them too.

That's really heartbreaking. The people who made him the punchline, like the South Park creators, really don't give a shit about people. And it was all for a stupid reason (they were mad they lost an award to him). Feel really sorry for Phil and the asshole anons trying to mock OP. Thought he always just kind of ignored it. The poor dear. Suicide over an unfunny pop culture joke.

lol Phil Collins

Get dunked on.

Every time Phil Collins is mentioned, all I can think about is the episode of South Park where he tells everyone to stop laughing at Timmy even though they weren't and they thought it was cool Timmy was in a band but Phil Collins was being a joykill.

OP

That's basically one of the things that cemented Phil Collins as "a punchline" sadly. He was depressed nearly to the point of suicide for awhile as a result of all the hate, and how many people thought he was a joke after the younger generation on the internet got ahold of him. I hate that kind of stuff, he seems like the most genuine, caring guy, and the hate is so unwarranted, even if someone happens to not like his music.

Honestly, there's at least one band "in retirement" I would feel this way about, so that's not so weird.

OP

Yeah, it's just...I don't know, really weird. I've been listening to Phil Collins since I was a baby, not even lying. When other kids dragged around baby music players with "Wheels On The Bus", my mom used to laugh at me because I would tell her I didn't want to listen to that, I wanted to listen to Eric Clapton, or Genesis, or Phil Collins. :P I've been listening to them all my life too. But despite that, for some reason it's not Genesis (although I got to see their reunion tour too and I am so, so incredibly happy I got to see a band I never thought I would ever be able to see live play!), it's not Peter Gabriel (although I will see him if he ever comes around on a solo tour (he's performing with Sting later this year but it's at a really shitty waterfront arena place in a baaaaaaaaaaaad part of town, I don't want to get mugged even if I would have loved to see those two live together), even though I have just as many memories of being with family and listening to Peter Gabriel (my uncle used to blare "Kiss That Frog" on his record player until it filled our entire three story house :D), it's Phil Collins and Phil Collins alone that makes me int an emotional weirdo.

It's just so odd from a logical standpoint I guess because all of my favourite old artists should elicit this emotional thing--one of my earliest memories is being in the car and listening to Eric Clapton's "Bad Love" in my booster seat--but they don't, or at least nearly not as strong.

I'm pretty sure you're my musical soulmate. Phil/Peter/Clapton/Sting. YES PLS.

Anyway, I have been saying for a long, long time that the Phil Collins hate train was entirely unfair and unwarranted, and I'm utterly convinced the hate comes from people who think it's hilarious to hate on the uncool short balding guy, but don't *actually* know his music. You mentioned upthread Mama and Home By the Sea. Right? My fave is and always will be Squonk. Trick of the Tail. OMG. Anyway. Yeah. Virtual fistbump.

NAYRT but omg count me in here! This thread mentioned about half my playlist to be completely honest. Squonk and Trick of the Tail are both incredible pieces of music as well (the Seconds Out Live version of Squonk gives me chills every time I play it), and the entire Trick of the Tail album was just incredible. Mama and Home By The Sea too, arrrghh I could just bliss out to that stuff all day.

Clapton too! OP mentioned "Bad Love", they're the first person I've seen to mention that particular piece of Eric's music, I also love "No Alibis"...aaaand of course classics like "Layla" and "I Shot The Sheriff". :D

You, me and OP need to get together and just chill and listen to good music! I'm so jealous of OP though (in a good way, I'm really glad for them, their passion for their music is really cute to me), after watching Phil Collin's FFF Tour on Youtube I can't even imagine how amazing that must have been to see live! :)

I'm glad he's actually trying again.

Phil Collins was a big part of my teen-&-under years, and he really didn't deserve the insults he got from various posers over the years.

he was retired? I thought everybody just got bored with his crappy 80s music.

You're the pretentious asshole who thinks he's being edgy by saying something stupid. That's really sad.

AYRT
You're the one who's saying something stupid by assuming I'm a man just because I think Phil Collins' music sucks.

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