fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3730 ]

[ SECRET POST #3730 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3730 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Movie: 8Uppers, Actor/Singer: Nishikido Ryo]

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03.

[Psych, Shawn/Jules]

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[Gentlemen Prefer Blondes]

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[Yuri on Ice]

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[Irish comedian Ed Byrne and the Great British Bake Off]

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[Pokemon B/W]

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08.

[Overwatch]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #533.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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What are some of your favorite female friendships?

Also, why DO you think it's so rare to see non-related female characters who aren't rivals, frenemies, or at least relatively passive/indifferent towards each other?

- Leslie and Ann from Parks and Rec, hands down.

The female friends on FRIENDS were also great about this - the series had plenty of contrived love triangle scenarios, and the friends could be rather horrible, but one of the things I liked about the show was that Monica, Phoebe and Rachel seemed to legitimately love one another. There's even an episode in the first season where Rachel's boyfriend hits on Phoebe, and Rachel gets mad at the boyfriend, not Phoebe. (Nor is Phoebe remotely tempted to reciprocate.)

I think there are a few reasons it's rarer.

1. It's easier to write love triangles that way, and people seem to love writing love triangles.

2. Hollywood is still stuck in the mindset that female character arcs have to be romance-based. (Although it's getting better.)

3. I think writers see female friendships as complex and difficult to write. Whereas a frenemyship or rivalry is seemingly easier. (I'm not sure that's true IRL, though.)

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I always liked Elinor and Marianne from Sense and Sensibility. They're quite unalike in personality and temperament, but they're there for each other, even when they disagree on things.

As for the second, I think a lot of media has a real problem writing decent female characters with depth and a role beyond how they related to the male characters on the cast. So you get a lot of wives and girlfriends or the occasional tomboyish friend, but you women who stand on their own and/or who have meaningful relationships with other women don't get as much screentime.

a lot of male writers don't seem to have any conception of female friendship at all.

I think a lot of male writers don't get women, period. There's this persistent thinking that women are alien and indecipherable compared to men and can't possibly feel or think the same way. I'm also reminded of this scene with Jack Nicholson from As Good as it Gets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFMFzXN0js

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The women Ghostbusters!

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Daria Morgendorffer and Jane Lane are probably my favorite.

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As others have said, I love the friendships between Monica Geller, Phoebe Buffay, and Rachel Green, and between Daria and Jane.

I also really enjoyed the characterization of female characters on Greek, and the friendship between Casey & Ashleigh (and the friendships between the actresses, listening to an episode commentary.)

The Mindy Project portrayed female friendship in a way I personally found relatable and enjoyable in the first season, but then it kind of became a sausage fest workplace comedy, which while still fun and enjoyable, was missing part of what drew me to the show in the first place.

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Sakura Kinomoto and Tomoyo Daidouji, across all dimensions. Also, all the girls in the Angelic Layer anime.

A lot of the time when feminist issues are debated in mainstream (non-fandom, non-feminist) spaces, there will inevitably be a number of men coming out complaining about how women are their own worst enemies because they're catty, backstabbing, passive-agressive bitches towards each other. I've no idea how widespread is outside of losers who hang around to comment on news articles, though.

Edited 2017-03-21 23:20 (UTC)

The Golden Girls!! I pray that I'm still that saucy with my friends when I'm older.

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Poussey and Taystee

Annie and Kat from Gunnerkrigg Court.

I think it's rare because the patriarchy likes to pit us against each other, because if we were all friends we'd take over the world or something.

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My first thought was Korra and Asami but they got together in the end so I don't know how much it counts. Their friendship before they were officially a couple was well done, though (and made the relationship upgrade totally believable imo). And they also had the love triangle plot where they blamed the guy, not each other, for totally mishandling his interest in both of them.

Wendy and Lacy on the Middleman!

I think Anne Shirley and Diana Barry are my faves. They've very different people but they love and support each other passionately!

Some thoughts on the other question.

In the early era of the film industry there were a lot more female directors. It was a much more gender-equal than it is today, even though society as a whole was much less open and equal for women.

At some point (as usual) men saw there was too much money to let the women have control, and slowly shoved them out and to the sidelines. Then movies because about what men wanted and wanted to write about. Women have always been involved in film but the more they're shoved to the background support, with less writing and directing by women, the more they're part of the man's world the film industry has become.

I can't prove that there was more female-oriented material and more female friendships (I haven't studied film, and a lot of this early work by and for women wasn't preserved, FOR SOME REASON just like anything women achieve and men try to tear down throughout all of FUCKING HISTORY), but it would shock me if it didn't.

Also, why DO you think it's so rare to see non-related female characters who aren't rivals, frenemies, or at least relatively passive/indifferent towards each other?

Well, to give a general answer, the patriarchy.

I mean, I think there's a lot of male writers who wouldn't even think to have women characters if it weren't for sex appeal - not that they'd make a conscious decision not to have them, but they just wouldn't even think of it. It's incredibly easy to center your own experiences, and patriarchal norms encourage that to an extraordinarily huge extent. And while of course it's not exclusively a problem of male creators, it is probably more pronounced for men and it does not help that creative power is hugely weighted towards men in most industries.

I dunno.

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Too many to list, and I don't think it's rare at all nor do I understand why other people think it is.

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Joan and Peggy on Mad Men

Leia and Mara in the Star Wars EU. Also Mara and Jaina. and Padme and Mon Mothma in the Prequels.

Kira Nerys and Jadzia Dax in Deep Space Nine. So very, very different and yet very supportive of each other.

Kahlan Amnell and Cara Mason in Legend of the Seeker.

Buffy Summers and Willow Rosenburg. Love these two so much.

Anne Shirley and Dianna Berry. I always wanted to find my Dianna.

They've already been said but Monica, Rachel, and Phoebe on Friends. They all came off as genuinely loving.

Sabrina's friendships with all the girls on that show were really nice and supportive. Like Sabrina would totally fuck up sometimes with them but she often learned how to be a better friend by the end of an episode.

Trish and Jessica from Jessica Jones, they had a really wonderful relationship tbh not without its issues ofc but they still cared for and looked out for each other immensely.

It's a really dumb show, really really dumb, but Fish Hooks has some fantastically written female characters. Bea, Shellsea, Fimberly, Esmargot, Clamantha, and Koi have a great friendship. (Yes, yes I know, they're all fish puns) They have a great deal of screentime and plenty of plot stuff that doesn't revolve around male characters.

Gravity Falls also had Mabel, Wendy, Candy, and Grenda.

I think the main reason you don't see more female friendships is because there's a tendency for writers to see Blank Slate Character as a (white if applicable) male and after that you're adding characteristics, and there better be a reason to add those characteristics and you want it all as simple as possible. So unless a character being female is considered important to the story (like her being A Sister or A Love Interest) there's no reason to deviate from Normal Basic Character. This is, of course, an awful way of looking at things, but it's still common.

Another for Sakura and Tomoyo. I didn't even realize how much I appreciated their friendship until Tsubasa, when they landed on Piffle and holy smokes their friendship is just the cutest thing ever. Tomoyo is super cheery around Sakura and Sakura is super proactive around Tomoyo. ~~It was also a nice change from Tokyo: Clamp goes on Acid.~~

The ladies from Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, of course.

Uh... I honestly haven't seen much media as of late and now I wish there was more.

Also, why DO you think it's so rare to see non-related female characters who aren't rivals, frenemies, or at least relatively passive/indifferent towards each other?

From what I noticed and what other people have pointed out, writers who literally think women are from another planet. Also from what I've noticed they do it for the sake of drama, to add some "spice" to the situation. It absolutely sucks when this is done on pretty much every series ever and kinda sad when you just kinda expect it to happen.

Scott and Bailey is everything. Sometimes the characters made stupid decisions for plot reasons which was frustrating, but on the whole it was just fab and so refreshing.

Frankie and Grace from the show of the same name (on Netflix). I love them (characters *and* actors).

I think...because way too many men see women as *not* friends, or as always being a little bit catty or focused on The Guy to really have a clue about how a f/f friendship works.

That, and they just don't seem to pay much attention.

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