[ SECRET POST #3805 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3805 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #545.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Not everyone feels the way you do? For a lot of people, it's just a story, or maybe they don't mind sharing this one private thing about themselves. They're still being selective about what they share, it's just that they select different things than you do.

I'm trying not to be a jerk here, but this really is not that difficult to grasp unless you come from a planet where everyone has the same opinion about everything, all the time.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand some people are a little more open but it still comes off as a bit strange to me just because of the type of response self insert fics typically get (not positive.)

It's also not necessarily a good thing when people don't realize some thoughts should be private. Especially on the internet where people can very easily get targeted for very minor things. People tend to forget this.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, okay.

1. Not everyone is aware that there's so much strong negative feelings about self insert fics. Young people, people who are new to the whole writing thing, etc.

2. Even if they knew, not everyone's discouraged by the possibility of a negative reaction to what they create. This is absolutely a good thing, because without it, we'd never have any good art.

3. It's just fanfic, anon. We're not talking about people who like telling strangers at the grocery store about their bleeding hemorrhoids or PIN numbers or state secrets. Just... fanfic. We're better off coming down hard on any asshole who targets someone just for writing a fanfic they don't like rather than trying to warn everyone to ooh, better censor your perfectly harmless fanfic in case you make a toxic internet troll mad!

[(Anonymous)]

I rarely see fandom come down that hard on assholes though. Most often more what happens is that young people get doxxed and bullied into leaving, and for anyone dealing with mental illness it is not easy for them to get over.

It is not bad advice to tell young people to limit what they share with others on the internet. The internet is PUBLIC TO EVERYONE and that can open you up to a lot of shit. It's not a bad thing to tell people that maybe sometimes you should put your rant under a friends lock or that maybe your fic should be in a private journal. Being private about things on the internet has honestly saved me from a lot of drama over the years, I can't imagine how I would have reacted as a teen if I had gotten bullied the way some teens deal with today.

If they can handle the criticism, then great, but I don't think it's bad to just suggest to people there are other options rather then sharing it.

[diet_poison]

Were you private on the internet solely because some nosy asshole told you to be?

And personally I feel like maybe we should be coming down on the bullies and not the people who are being bullied when that situation arises...

[(Anonymous)]

I was private because the internet was still very "new" and yes people had paranoia about it, but in the end I'm a bit grateful for it because I have nothing from my teen years on the internet still haunting me.

I think we should come down on the bullies as well, but like I said, that is NOT what usually happens. So I don't think it's bad to advise caution to young people.

[(Anonymous)]

"I rarely see fandom come down that hard on assholes though."

I'm not saying the internet already does this consistently, I'm saying maybe we should, as opposed to telling people that they need to alter their (harmless!) behavior in order so as to appease said assholes.


"It is not bad advice to tell young people to limit what they share with others on the internet."

I never said it was. What IS bad advice is telling people that they need to change their - again, let me emphasize this- HARMLESS BEHAVIOR THAT HURTS NO ONE because horrible bad things will happen if they do and they'll need to live in fear of this happening at any time. That's very alarmist thinking and not actually helpful at all.


"If they can handle the criticism, then great, but I don't think it's bad to just suggest to people there are other options rather then sharing it."

The point you're trying to make is really odd, because you're acting as though people who write self inserts and Mary Sue fics aren't currently being informed that they can keep that stuff private when in fact, this is the overwhelmingly loud (and occasionally rude) advice they're already getting. This isn't the alternative option you're implying that it is, it's the mainstream option and often presented as the ONLY option.

[(Anonymous)]

I would love if fandom came down more on bullies myself, but it's easier said then done. Even when trolls get banned they can always come back, and there's very little fandom can do when someone's accounts that no one but them has access to are getting targeted. If someone truly gets bullied I've never seen the trolls get scared away, mostly either the person being bullied leaves or learns to ignore it, not everyone is able to learn to ignore it.

Are you anon from earlier because "Not everyone is aware that there's so much strong negative feelings about self insert fics. Young people, people who are new to the whole writing thing, etc." suggests that not everyone knows the options, so yes it wouldn't be a bad thing to suggest to them that they keep a fic private.

[diet_poison]

Who is the police of which thoughts should be private, though? It sounds really presumptuous for you to say it like that. That's someone else's personal choice, not yours.

[(Anonymous)]

I never talked about forcing anyone to do anything, I was mainly asking what the point of sharing it is and trying to understand why it's a bad thing to suggest some things be private.

Not force, but suggest. Particularly for anyone who might not be aware of the backlash they could receive.

[diet_poison]

Asking what the point of sharing is is legit. Suggesting other people keep things private because you think they should is presumptuous especially if it's not someone you actually know. It's just not your job and falls squarely in the "mind your own business" category.

[sarillia]

Why is this something that should be private? Is this another one of those things where I'm not reading the arguments correctly because I forget that to some people fanfic=porn?

What is so horribly personal about a story where the main character is a thinly veiled version of the writer that it's a matter of--actually I'm not sure what you're saying it's a matter of. Safety? Decency?

[(Anonymous)]

My take on it is that someone doesn't like self insert fanfic and doesn't see the point of it and they're one of those people who thinks that everyone should feel the same. You know. The kinds of people who "just don't understand" why other people have these weirdly different opinions, because that's like really confusing?

But they're subtly disguising it as a "omg will nobody thinks of the helpless newbies!!!" issue.

[(Anonymous)]

It's more because I don't need to know other people's fantasies, like fic to me is something I want to read to explore established characters, not someone else's fantasy about them and an established character.

I honestly don't care that much either way, I just don't understand why people feel the need to share it so I was questioning that. I also in general think people could afford to share less on the internet so you can chalk it up to my personal feelings.

[sarillia]

For a lot of self-insert writers, that's only one aspect of the story. They also have fun with the other characters and the plot and everything else. You're acting like they're literally just writing about their fantasies of hanging out with their favorite characters, and some are, but others are still treating it as a story that they put work into and that other people might appreciate.

There's really a gradient of self-insert, with the actual writer as a character on one end and characters with various traits borrowed from the writer on the other end. They're not all the same.

And still, even the stories that you're obviously picturing will have people who enjoy reading them. Generally other people who share the same kind of fantasy. Yes, there will be people making fun of it too, but not everyone is put off by that.

[(Anonymous)]

I think some of what you're talking about goes more towards and OC then a self insert, but I see what you're saying.

None of that really bothers me, I was never suggesting going out and forcing people to take down all their fic, I truly just do not get it because to me it's embarrassing. I recognize not everyone thinks the same way I do but there's still a level of "???" for me about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Why do you think that fanfic should be catered to you or kept private?

[(Anonymous)]

Because it's fucking embarrassing.

There was this huge thing with the new Powerpuff Girls where one of the crew self-inserted a character into the cartoon so he could be Blossom's love interest. He even voiced that character. It caused huge back lash because everyone was creeped the fuck out at how pathetic it was.

[(Anonymous)]

And yet, the world didn't end. So maybe it's fine for people to embarrass themselves with self inserts and those of us who don't like self inserts can avoid those works and we don't have to shame people into writing stuff purely on the basis that we dislike it?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes because a grownass man showing a desire to have his fictional self with what's implied to be a 5 or 6 year old girl is the same as teens imagining themselves with people their age or older.

Exactly the fucking same.

People were creeped out by the implications of a grown man wanting to be the love interest of a child character. Not because self inserts are inherently creepy.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't write self-insert fics, but I'm boggling at the idea that things should be kept private because they don't always get a positive reaction.

If that was the case, I'd have to keep my college major private in my home town (because that's not what respectable young women study), keep my friends hidden somewhere, and not share my opinions about anything, whether irl or online.

I like talking, so I guess I'll keep doing that even if it's not always going to get a positive reaction.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't you ever have things that you want to talk about, but when you step back and take a minute you decide, "Maybe I should keep this to myself." or "Maybe I should just tell my small group of friends."

I know I do, and there are times online where I definitely think, "Yeah, I'd rather not have the whole internet see this and deal with the people who would hate it."

Maybe I should have done that on f!s because I really don't care that much what other people do with their fic, I was just questioning it.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is you get to decide what to keep private for yourself. Making suggestions to other people that THEY should keep stuff private just because YOU think it's not fit for public consumption is presumptuous. Treating other people like they're too ignorant to decide for themselves because they've chosen differently than you would is presumptuous.

[(Anonymous)]

"I don't write self-insert fics, but I'm boggling at the idea that things should be kept private because they don't always get a positive reaction."

Yep, this exactly. This isn't a reasonable suggestion, and I'm not sure why ayrt thinks it's good advice.

[(Anonymous)]

But then by that token they can't get upset when people criticize it because they made that choice to put it out there for everyone to see.