fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4007 ]

[ SECRET POST #4007 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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02.

[Pokémon USUM]

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03.

[Moby]

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04.

[Brooklyn 99, Gina Linetti]

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05.

[Guardians of the Galaxy franchise]

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06.

[Illusion of Gaia]

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07.

[Stranger Things]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #574.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

being manipulative?

I'm getting to the point where everything I say and do with people feels in some way manipulative unless I just stop wanting anything ever. How do I stop feeling like when I ask someone a simple question I'm asking for something, or when I feel like I wanna vent about a bad day I feel like I'm giving a list of selfish demands. How do I not believe i'm somehow willing myself into feeling sick when I feel bad?

I really wanna not feel like shit considering it's christmas, but for whatever reason all this shit came back up in my mind at work today after I had an anxiety attack.

Maybe it's better to just...not talk to anyone at all?

FWIW I’m terribly sorry to hear you had to work on December 23rd.

it was pretty swamped. Thats probably why. and some of my coworkers and managers weren't in the best mood.

None of that's manipulative. Those are perfectly normal things everyone does.

I'm not sure how to stop invasive thoughts like this but with mine I try and just reinforce that they're irrational in my own head.

I guess.. just.. somehow all of it feels like it.I haven't trusted my own perception for years thanks to shit that happened when I was growing up.

I think defining what manipulative means would help.

For me, I would say none of those things are deliberately, knowingly placing people in situations in which it's harder than usual to say "no" or "sorry I'm busy" or otherwise not give you what you want. It's fine to want things as long as other people's option to say no is respected too.

I mean my frame of reference is mainly my mother suggesting that I was manipulative in a few occasions where she didn't care for how permissive teachers of doctors were with me. And it just... sorta go into my head.

and now it makes me wonder about everything I do. Especially when Im stressed.

I say this as a fellow Asian - your parents are messed up. I'm not suggesting they're horrible people, but they're kind of... not very nice as parents.

My mother accused me of the exact same thing. She said I was only nice to people when I wanted something. Only unlike you, I knew it was bullshit. I avoided her because she could never speak civilly to me, for any reason. Everything was an order, a complaint or a yelling contest about how I wasn't washing the dishes in the "right way" or how my hair looked bad or my clothes weren't what she thought I should wear. Nothing was ever good enough. It wasn't that she was incapable of speaking nicely to people, she just didn't feel that she needed to be nice to family. So by her reasoning, being civil to someone was "manipulative" because gee, why would you just talk to someone like they're a human being and not an idiot? Also how dare you WANT things such as privacy, or a parent who doesn't criticize every single thing you do? How unreasonable you are to want to decide what you want to wear or how to style your hair!

She's gaslighting you. Because if you doubt yourself, you'll be unable to offer any pushback to what she wants you to do. It's fucking up your sense of what's normal, but remember: your parents are NOT normal. This is a dysfunctional environment, and I hope you find a good therapist and get out. My relationship with my parents improved a lot after I left their home. They love me and want what's best for me, but we both needed that physical separation for them to LET GO.

Good luck!

..I'm not actually Asian for what its worth but, thanks that affirmation helps.

My parents did use the "only nice to people when I wanted something" I probably believed it because I could be very...emotionally volatile and explosive. My emotions were out of control more often, I'll be the first to admit it.

I've gotten out for the time being but the criticisms still ring in my head and effect how I handle things. I feel like I repeat cycles without thinking. Today at work I had a panic attack, and requested going home early. My manager was clearly annoyed (and sort of laughed which pisses me off a little) and told me to go. I picked up on his annoyance and then decided to stay and for the rest of my shift I went into what I like to call "manic overacheiver mode" until the end. and it basically played out like arguments with my parents did "upset, guilt, and overachieving because of guilt/to earn back things."

My relationship with them has gotten better from afar but I still feel I can't talk with them about our relationship and my issues because it always turned into "well you couldn't understand this because of your autism but..." and it just got old trying to talk about it. My only concern is if I have to go back.

I'm not the anon you replied to, but this: "My parents did use the "only nice to people when I wanted something" I probably believed it because I could be very...emotionally volatile and explosive." reminds me of myself. Do you think it's possible for you to have developed an emotionally explosive pattern because anything less was ignored and invalidated?

That actually makes sense! My parents never really understood a lot about mental illness aside from my mom having anxiety about one specific thing. and I guess my strange mess of mental issues became a lot to deal with.

I mean when I had severe OCD as a teenager my parents would try to make me feel better or brush it off with "everybody has a little bit of OCD" (was everybody making themselves throw up because of guilt about bad thoughts" at 15? Somehow I don't think so). On one occasion when they were busy and I tried to come to them about my OCD problems my dad initially snapped "Not everything's about you" before stopping to listen to me. I mean I'm glad he eventually listened but hearing that so many times starts to get to you and make you feel really bad about having problems.

And after high school I was really depressed and the next seven years were me trying to get help and attention about it and it frequently getting brushed off unless I had a full on conniption fit.

I don't like getting mad at people and I hate conflict especially being in the center of it. I really do. But I just needed something I wasn't getting and it was increasingly frustrating. It culminated in me having a near suicide attempt when I was 25 the winter after my grandmother died and I had a stressful year. and afterward my parents just took my phone away for a few months, and made sure I knew how much they didn't like paying the bills for my hospital bill.

I started to feel like I'd never get what I was hoping for.

God I probably sound unbearable now.

I think your issue isn't that you need to stop being manipulative, but that you need to stop thinking everything you do is manipulative.

I don't have much advice, but I've been there. Manipulative people in my life convinced me that every time I express an opinion, I'm demanding they feel the same way (so, of course, I should shut up), that showing any emotion is an attempt to emotionally manipulate them, etc. It sucks.

I'm trying.... therapy might be helpful if I can find a therapist I'm comfortable with. I'm sorta nervous around them after my last one

Different anon here - have you thought about trying the betterhelp website?

I have trouble attending in person appointments due to anxiety and I've found the process much more on my terms than seeing one in person. I found they matched me with one I liked, but you have the option to switch.

Just something to read up on if you think it might be a good fit for you.

Thank you I'll check it out.

I often feel the same way about myself, and a thing I try to do to keep my self-loathing in check is to put myself in the other person's shoes.

Sure, I feel like a selfish leech for making someone listen to my problems, but how would I feel if my friend needed a listening ear? I'd want to hear what's going on with them and support them! I'd never think my friend was manipulative/selfish or dislike them because they needed to talk to someone.

Being honest about what you're going through and asking for simple things is not being manipulative. I've known truly manipulative, selfish people, and they never hold themselves accountable for anything they do wrong. They aren't grateful for the people who support them, because they feel entitled to that support and throw fits when they don't get the exact kind they want. They weaponize their problems to guilt trip anyone who would dare to imply they're being selfish or manipulative. You don't sound anything like them.

Please take care of yourself. Your needs are just as important as everyone else's. It's okay to ask for help sometimes. You aren't doing anything wrong by existing and being human. I hope you have a good Christmas.

Thank you. That's very helpful

I hope your holiday is good too.

I can't think of if there's a term for it off the top of my head. But.. being 'manipulative' is part of society. It's just that when it gets to the point of causing harm to others around you or when it's done maliciously than it's what people call manipulation.

Like smiling at someone and speaking to them politely is non-malicious manipulation, by being pleasant I'm trying to encourage them to be pleasant back. That's the building blocks of social interaction! I'm working for our mutual benefit.

Someone who yells and is nasty to try and make someone else cry because they enjoy hurting others is being maliciously manipulative.

So try asking yourself "Am I doing this because I want to hurt them?" and "Do they have the option of saying no in some way?" If no to the first and yes to the second you're perfectly fine.

So during a casual situation going "Is it ok if I vent to you about a bad day?" to someone and then respecting that their answer is honest then you're not being manipulative. (It is possible they're being dishonest and lying about a yes, but... you're not being manipulative if you're just believing them! People are complicated, it sucks, but lying is on them. )

Thank you.

I'll try that from now on.

Well, first off, no it's not better to not talk to anyone at all. That will seriously fuck you up long-term. I would know, I spent a little while as a NEET/hikikomori when shit got really bad and that's not a road you want to go down. I do think this sounds pretty serious and it's the kind of thing you should be working with a therapist about, but I'm guessing this isn't an option?

To start with I think you need to figure out whether or not you're actually being manipulative. Or rather, figure out whether you're being overly self-motivated/'maliciously manipulative' vs. healthily self-motivated.

Like, to use one of your examples, uh, let me try to format this in a way that makes sense....

----When you want to vent about a bad day----

(1)
Are you venting to someone who cares about your well-being, who is interested in hearing about it and/or willing to listen to you vent for a while?
-OR-
Are you off-loading on someone who doesn't care about your well-being, or someone who doesn't want to hear your complaints? Are you strong-arming someone into listening by attempting to make them feel guilty or by score keeping? ("I listened to you when your cat died, so you should listen to me about my crappy day.")

(2)
When you're listing your complaints, are you mentally processing things in a 'good' (healthy, productive, non-disordered) way?
~For example: "Man, everything went wrong today. I forgot to set my alarm so I was late to work and my boss was pissed when I got in. Things were tense all day. And then my dad called this evening freaking out about Xmas. I'm so stressed, I don't know what to do!"
-OR-
Are your complaints the product of disordered thought patterns? Are they paranoid, narcissistic, anxious, etc?
~For example: "My alarm didn't go off (avoiding responsibility) and like usual my fuckface roommate didn't wake me up! (transferring blame) My boss screamed and yelled at me for hours, she hates me, she even said I should just kill myself. (lying for validation) Then my dad called, it's the same bullshit with the 'rents as usual. They're always trying to sabotage my holidays." (paranoia)

(3)
Are you taking responsibility for your own thoughts, actions, and feelings? (When you complain, you understand that the other person is only there to listen and maybe offer advice or comforting words. You understand and accept that the person may have a different perspective on the situation than you, like being unsympathetic.)
-OR-
Are you trying to push responsibility of your thoughts, actions, and feelings on the listener? (You expect an unreasonable degree praise and comfort. Advice or criticism makes you angry. You demand validation for your feelings, thoughts, and actions. You demand the listener condemn the "villains" in your story.)

If you don't know the answer to one of these categories, that's something to work on. Like, if you don't know whether your friend wants to listen to your complaints or not, why don't you know? Is it a problem of not reading nonverbal communication, or just bad communication in general? What steps can you take to find the answer to that category?

----

If you feel like you're being manipulative, look at your interactions. Write down what happened, and break it down into a script. Think critically about the things you said and did. If the interaction made you feel bad, figure out why. What factors made it negative, and how can you change them.

You also need to keep in mind that some level of selfishness is good. A healthy relationship has give and take. You ask a coworker a question, and tomorrow they ask you for help on a project. A friend lends an ear, and next week you listen to them when they have a bad day. Wanting things for yourself is healthy.

If your self-worth is so low that you feel like you aren't allowed to have or want things, then it might help to think of it in terms of your friends or even some stranger you don't know. Is your friend being bad when they ask a question? Is a stranger being manipulative if they do x thing? You should also look at self-affirmation type stuff if this is the problem.

Thank you.. sorry to be late to reply I just crashed at midnight , got some sleep and all of the sudden now I am W I R E D.

This is all very helpful . I think self affirmation stuff would work as well as talking out my issues with a therapist.

I dunno. I think everyone is manipulative to some extent. Often I wonder what sort of person I am, letting everybody I interact with think I agree with them - but the truth is, I simply don't care enough to state my real oppinion about anything to most people, if I can be bothered having much of one in the first place. Especially when it's in re: to something of little consequence.

I can sorta get that, it's honestly a lot easier than conflict yanno?

Sort of why I stopped talking about serious issues/politics on here for the most part. wasn't worth the hassle. specially when I'm never sure of my own opinions to start with.

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[ SECRET POST #4007 ]

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