fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4016 ]

[ SECRET POST #4016 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4016 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Intelligence, The Romeo Section]

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[American Vandal, Sara Pearson/Mr. Kraz]

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04.

[Winona Ryder]

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05.

[Doctor Who]

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06.

[Bring It On]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 28 secrets from Secret Submission Post #575.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Ugh, Felicia Day.

Ever since she came out saying that she was 'scared' of gamers during the whole Gamer Gate thing, that was when I lost any respect I had for her. I used to like her, but not anymore.

Why did that make you lose respect for her?

Considering the FBI concluded there was no real threat behind gamergate, it looked attention-seeking/playing the victim card. (I, too, am oppressed! Welcome me with open arms!)

she's a woman in the geek community. it's really weird that you pretend that she has nothing to fear or feel discriminated about.

She doesn't. Not from being a woman in the geek community anyway. Geeks are the most chill people you'll ever meet.

This does not match my practical experience at all, and it does not seem to match a lot of people's lived experience at all.

To be clear, I don't think geeks are particularly worse than anyone else, either. People are people.

Do you think it's possible for someone to be scared for reasons other than being in immediate danger of murder?

I mean, I know that I have been in my life, and I think I can understand being scared of a vituperative, insane Internet hate machine.

My point was that gamers are no more likely to threaten or harm her than anyone else. As a celebrity, I'm sure she has freaks who send her stuff. But there's no reason to believe that gamers in particular are worse, and reason to believe they're largely no different than the rest of the internet ... you know, that insane Internet hate machine you mentioned.

Additionally, the FBI recommends not responding or mentioning threatening material that is sent to you. It just encourages the behavior, just like publicizing mass murders increases the odds of another mass murder in the next six weeks.

So the only GOOD reason she could have brought it up is to play the victim card. Or she was dumb enough to talk about it despite the FREAKING FBI recommending otherwise, increasing the odds of getting MORE threatening material.

Could she have felt threatened? Sure, I guess. But why point out gamers? Why talk about it all, against professional advice? Either way, she doesn't end up looking good.

My point was that gamers are no more likely to threaten or harm her than anyone else. As a celebrity, I'm sure she has freaks who send her stuff. But there's no reason to believe that gamers in particular are worse, and reason to believe they're largely no different than the rest of the internet ... you know, that insane Internet hate machine you mentioned.

This is disingenuous. The reason that she said she was scared of gamers was connected to the fact that there was a specific Internet hate machine whose whole self-conception and purpose was built around their idea of being gamers. That's who scared her, that's why she said she was scared of gamers. That was a thing that was happening, and it was a very remarkable thing in the context of the Internet that a lot of people noticed as being distinctly toxic, and apparently it frightened her, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

Additionally, the FBI recommends not responding or mentioning threatening material that is sent to you. It just encourages the behavior, just like publicizing mass murders increases the odds of another mass murder in the next six weeks. So the only GOOD reason she could have brought it up is to play the victim card. Or she was dumb enough to talk about it despite the FREAKING FBI recommending otherwise, increasing the odds of getting MORE threatening material.

I can think of plenty of reasons why someone would want to talk about that stuff. Like maybe she believed that it would encourage people to stop doing all of the Massive Internet Toxic Hate Machine stuff.

Also: I'm not sure what we're getting mad at her for now. Is the problem that she claimed to be scared of gamers when she shouldn't have been? Or is the problem that she legitimately was scared of gamers, but it was wrong for her to say? Those two things seem somewhat contradictory - if she was lying about being scared, then that's wrong on its own, and you don't need to talk about how she shouldn't have told anyone about it. And if it's the second one that's true, it seems really fucked up to cast Felicia Day as the one in the wrong for being frightened. The worst you can say about talking about it, in that case, is that it was unwise. But that's not the same as being wrong.

I think the only people for whom she "doesn't come off looking good" are people who are committed to finding reasons, either to dislike her, or to justify a partisan position in favor of Gamergate. That's how it seems to me, at least.

nayrt but I'm baffled that you think it's weird that Felicia would say something like that, when gaming communities are full of loudmouth sexist assholes and as a celebrity she's already got to keep on guard. It's not her fault she feels threatened.

I've never heard that FBI recommendation before. When bad things happen to someone, it's pretty common to want to talk about it to someone, get it off their chest, or to get support when they're feeling scared. For you to not understand that is pretty ignorant of basic human reasoning. As another female gamer, I can understand why a prominent woman in the industry would be concerned. Your lack of sympathy is worse than anything she's done.

Why?

I get that. It was dumb as fuck... But she did catch a doxx, so... I disagree with her reasons and find them to be insulting and dumb, but I can't really say I don't get it.

And lets be honest the media wasn't painting us particularly well.

Edited 2018-01-02 02:48 (UTC)

How was it insulting and dumb as fuck, when you yourself acknowledge she caught a doxx

#NotAll

A fuckhead from group A does not mean that group A ia all fuckheads, and acting like it does is insulting and unreasonable.

Do you know how bullying works? One or a few loudmouths mouth off and a bunch of onlookers stand around and watch. The onlookers legitimate the loudmouths' actions and gives them steam. Both the loudmouths and the victim sees the onlookers as part of the "we hate the victim" group. The onlookers themselves are, sadly, often oblivious to this: they didn't mean to bully anyone and inside they even might sympathise with the victim. Yet: it's them who makes the bullying possible.

So you're saying feminists are bullies?

CP'd from an above comment:

You think I could get away with making a statement about how "Feminists be like..." without qualifying it with "Some"?

You think feminist who don't be like would be fine with that? Think they might be a tad offended that their group is being unfairly maligned? Think they might have a point?

Think that logic translates to my group?

"it's them who makes the bullying possible"

You heard the idea that victims of bullying are responsible for the bullying because they let it happen? Because they let it get to them? The give the bully the power?

I don't hold with this at all.

Bullies are responsible for bullying. That is where the responsibility starts and ends. Lashing out at people who are around the bullies, or in this case claim the same set of beliefs as the bullies is understandable in one way, but still vert stupid and insulting.

But we're not talking about saying that group A is all fuckheads, we're talking about being scared, which is an emotional reaction and IMO an understandable one when a huge number of members of the group are acting like dickheads and are doxxing you. I don't see how her being scared is "insulting and dumb".

Second, at some point, you have to be willing to, like, engage with things that actually happen, and not just write it all of as meaningless and random. It's horseshit, wako. No, not everyone in group A is a fuckhead. But we are human beings endowed with reason and judgment. We can look at and understand and judge patterns. We can evaluate and understand what is happening, and try to understand the reasons that is happening. You don't have to limit yourself to just making sure that no one could possibly think anyone negative of you personally, and refuse to engage with anyone else at all. And in this instance, there seem to have been a lot of people who identified as gamers, doing things because of the way that they understood that identity, for reasons that seem to me to be tenuous or bad or at the very least wildly disproportionate. And Felicia Day getting doxxed was a part of that broad phenomenon.

Saying that, and criticizing that, does not mean saying that all gamers are fuckheads. And as an intelligent human being, you should be able to grasp that idea and, you know, work with it and evaluate it as an idea instead of sticking your fucking head in the stand.

Shit.

We're talking about being scared, which is an emotionally understandable reaction...

And we're talking about saying that all gamers scare her, which, while it's understandable, is also a stupid and insulting thing to do.

when a huge number of members of the group are acting like dickheads and are doxxing you

And here I think the issue is, I just don't buy that it a huge number of the group was acting like dickheads... but i understand I'm not persuading anyone on that point. The media narrative is too well ingrained at this stage. You would, I suspect, take my assertions that its a relatively small and noisy number acting like dicks as evidence that I am one of the dicks in question, yes?

I'm not saying the loud minority isn't scary, but letting yourself judge a whole group by the minority IS stupid, expecially when it only takes one person to doxx you. If I can look at the #KillAllMen breed of feminist, and realise - eventually, I admit - that they not the standard to judge every feminist, and judging ever feminist by that standard is stupid and dumb, I don't think I'm being unfair by taking the viewpoint that the same thing should apply to my group.

Well, I do think you're a dickhead, for supporting Gamergate and also because of the things that you say on here generally. But I don't think - for instance - that you personally were doxxing or giving death threats, and I accept that you weren't in favor of those things either.

The thing is, dickhead is a broad category. I don't think that the majority of Gamergaters were doing those things. but I also think that the movement as a whole was vituperative and toxic, and that the behavior of the movement as a whole was as much about misogyny as any of its stated goals, and that its stated goals were wildly disproportionate to almost anything it did, and that it was taken advantage of by people whose political views are evil, and that the people who supported the movement mostly did so either because they agreed with some part of that fucked-up ideology and that misogyny, or because they placed a disproportionate amount of importance on its stated goals that blinded them to the actual actions of the movement, or in a small number of cases because they were duped.

I think that being critical of the movement as a whole is justified for reasons beyond the actions of the lunatic fringe, and I think that saying that you're scared of the lunatic fringe of the movement is justified if you're someone like Felicia Day. And I don't think that's just because the media has painted a nasty picture. And I don't think that those things are broadly the case with feminism as an ideology and a movement, outside of its lunatic fringe, although I know that you disagree with feminism as an ideology.

And we're talking about saying that all gamers scare her, which, while it's understandable, is also a stupid and insulting thing to do.

That's a pretty bad read of the article in question. "A small voice of doubt in my brain now suspected that those guys and I might not be comrades after all. That they might not greet me with reflected friendliness, but contempt." Which is the entire problem with harassment in gaming right now. The minority of assholes are so unpleasant that they poison the well for just about everyone.

The media narrative is too well ingrained at this stage.

Oh, come on. Gamergate was the biggest pile of bullshit to come out of the internet, only eclipsed about a year later by Pizzagate. The initial accusations against Quinn were the incoherent and inaccurate rantings of an ex, and required time-traveling prostitution for a one-sentence background reference. You got played for a fool providing cover for a harassment campaign, with the FBI files just released under FOIA where key parties admitted to having engaged in criminal threats. All of which was targeted at gamers and resulted in gamers bailing out of social media or jobs within the industry. Good job!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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