[ SECRET POST #4155 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4155 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #595.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/PV6Lopp.png

[(Anonymous)]

I think that's a combination of:

1) people really identifying with the villain
2) bringing some of their own emotional baggage into the ship
3) not being very creative writers

Especially #3.

[(Anonymous)]

Hehe, I think you nailed it.

I am willing to adjust to villain viewpoints, like Loki's in earlier MCU works, or Erik's here. But man, your writing better be damn good.

[(Anonymous)]

This though.

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe they're just writing what they enjoy, your Highness.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt, but I think that one might be included under #3. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

How does writing idfic for kicks = lack of creativity?

[(Anonymous)]

I like when the hero is super conflicted and reluctant to see the villain's potential to be redeemed, and even though the villain loves the hero they don't want to be redeemed, but the hero still feels compassion for them anyways because the hero is just that much of a good person.

[(Anonymous)]

Do you mean Reylo?

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, I don't ship het.

What I wanted for them was for them to somehow switch sides, but I think Dark!Rey was never really on the table unfortunately.

[(Anonymous)]

I am just so glad there is, like, one other fan outside my circle of friends that understand that there was never even the hint of Dark!Rey -- yes, Rey was determined and sneaky, but only to SAVE Ren, to convince him and pull him to her side. There was never any textual evidence of anything else.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you me OP, are you me?????
I have the same kink, and feel the exact same disappointment with how most hero/villain fic is written. Also goes into my annoyance with fic writers' tendency to woobify/ooc the villain.

[sparklywalls]

I'm almost always *all* about villains but I also love a good redemption arc so in terms of shipping I think I'm more interested in your way? Especially because one of the things I enjoy best about hero-villain dynamics is when they're a reflection of one another.

But both of them having to come to terms with their differences and changing each other while also accepting the fact they somewhat tie their existence to one another is probably harder to write than a simple "I love the villain therefore the villain is the correct one" plot. I suppose?

[nightscale]

I don't do hero/villain that often but I can agree with this gripe when I do, I'm not a fan of making it out like the villain was always right when they really, really weren't. Or that the hero is the one that needs to reevaluate their mindset.

It might work in some cases but by in large I'll be like 'nah the mass murderer isn't the one who needs to rethink shit', but fandom's gonna do what it does so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(Anonymous)]

BP is one of those cases maybe, in the sense that you do see the hero reconsider his nation's values and priorities at the end, but yeah, that still doesn't make #KillmongerWasRight legit.

[nightscale]

#KillmongerTotallyHadLegitGoodPoints

But ultimately #NakiaWasRight.

(Tbh I actually quite liked Killmonger because while he was totally down with the murder, it came from a place of wanting to help people who couldn't help themselves or have the means to, now he went the wrong way about it and would go too far, but I get where he was coming from).

[(Anonymous)]

I think a lot of my tastes in hero/villain ships were sort of shaped by my earliest ones.

So I like things along the Magneto/Professor X model, where both parties hold deep abiding care and admiration for each other personally but will never, ever agree on ideologies, goals or methods. They're on opposites sides for a reason and it takes drastic crises for them to be able to join together, and being taken outside their normal surroundings altogether to have something close to peace. I guess I like hero/villain ships with a touch of tragedy.

Or, I like things along the lines of Doctor/Master, where the entire relationship is an unending ball of spoiled friendship and gleeful enjoyment and bitter hatred and a weird willingness to die for each other and a less-weird-but-more-unfortunate willingness to kill each other very dead should circumstances dictate. That sort of, 'I will thwart you at every turn and fight you with everything I have and up and kill you if I have to or am feeling particularly hateful this evening, but woe betide anyone who touches you but me', sort of thing. Again, more on the tragic end, given that unless the pair in question are immortal it usually ends in death.

I actually don't tend to like either end of the 'swaying the enemy to my side' spectrum as much, I think. I suspect a lot of what I like in hero/villain ships is the element of pride and opposition, and I'm not as fond of it when one side or other 'bends' in the end. Joint causes and gradual softening to something approaching co-existence I'm okay with, but one side or other 'winning' isn't really what I'm here for.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

That's fair enough, and also really interesting. I think it might be the same for me. A lot of what I describe in the secret harkens back to when I shipped Buffy/Spike.

[(Anonymous)]

Our early ships do shape us quite a bit, it would seem :)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that's what I like, too. I do like temporary swaying to the opposite side, or teaming up to achieve a mutual goal while arguing about methods. Killmonger/T'Challa is great for that just like Professor X/Magneto, but I don't want either person to be 100% in the right.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel the same - although then I feel bad for always writing the villain reforming to some extent, because it feels cooler and more complex to do it the other way. But I don't think it is really :/

I guess it depends what you think they both see in each other. Your secret describes pretty well what I think could happen in such ships (it's also basically my crack). If neither of them change their ideologies, then it's pretty difficult for the hero to go on being a hero, which is going to be difficult if the hero was the kind of person who was very into the idea of doing something right - T'Challa, for example, is into protecting his people so he could not possibly stand by and let them suffer. So he'd have to put that above any feelings he had - so you're going to write a lot of unrequited fics. If you can even justify a relationship that goes against such a fundamental character trait.

Either that - or it is a physical attraction only, which is dull.

Or the hero gives up his herodom... and therefore what does the villain see in him? I'd think in a lot of cases the attraction is in the passion for doing what's right.

Anyway. Basically - THIS.

Including T'Challa being pretty :)

[(Anonymous)]

Yesssss, but that inherent potential for tragedy makes these ships so sweet, wouldn't you say? ;)

As stated in the secret, I stan heroes and so am extremely resistant to the idea that such a character would lose their heroic core (it might get a little tarnished now and again, but should always remain). So I agree, in these stories it seems more reasonable for the villain who to bend -- in a realistic way, if possible. It works out in more optimistic settings, like say the MCU.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe you should check out the show Hannibal. Though that's more "hero falls for the villain, and doens't come around to their side exactly, but is in so deep he doesn't care."

[(Anonymous)]

T'Challa really is pretty. Those big Bambi eyes and eyelashes for days hnnnnnngggg

[(Anonymous)]

Lol, I have a huge crush on him, and them eyes account for at least 90% of it. I love that he's such a compassionate character and the actor gets to do all kinds of soulful eye-acting.