[ SECRET POST #4162 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4162 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 35 secrets from Secret Submission Post #596.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://i.imgur.com/8NAqcuh.png

[(Anonymous)]

I just prefer Elizabeth to Will because Keira Knightley is infinitely more likable (not to mention talented) than Orlando Bloom.

[ninety6tears]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I prefer Norrington to either of them. ;D

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't put "Keira Knightley" and "likable" in one sentence but to each their own.

[(Anonymous)]

*puts up lawnchair, hoping for the perfect popcorn storm*

[(Anonymous)]

IA that it's not at all realistic, but I do kind of feel like a lack of realism is a slightly silly reason to dislike a PotC character

[(Anonymous)]

I was going to say...there's not much to like in this canon if you can't handwave these types of characters, starting with what all the main characters are about.

[(Anonymous)]

+2

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. If you want realism, why are you watching the PotC movies at all?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, even as a kid I thought they were both way too boring to be likeable (or care at all about anything they went through), so I can hardly blame you for finding one (or both) of them poorly written? Just sounds like common sense to me, haha.

[nightscale]

I liked them both just fine honestly, and all the characters are a bit silly if we're being honest, it's part of the genre of movie it's in so I really can't hold that against her. Not unless I held it against all of them, which I don't.

[(Anonymous)]

I've always loved her character but it never bothered me that most people, unless they were fellow Willabeth shippers, didn't really care about her or hated her. Most people who shipped her with Jack used Elizabeth as their self insert as far as I saw in my fandom experience.

[(Anonymous)]

No one in this cast gets anywhere on their own merits, though. At least, not merits as in skills or experience. The only way to get ahead in PotC is explicitly luck and opportunism (and being batshit insane in the right places), and everybody gets ahead usually by being in the right place at the right time and having the right things fall into their lap. See Jack's entire existence, Barbossa only being alive because a pissed-off sea goddess figured he'd be useful, Will's dad happening to be in Davy Jones' crew, etc, etc. About the only ones there who actually try to get by on merit are Norrington, who got shafted for it, and first movie Will Turner, who more or less grew out of it.

I mean, I'm not saying Elizabeth doesn't benefit from silly plot devices, I'm just saying she's hardly alone there. Sao Feng mistaking her for a goddess and giving her a fleet isn't really any worse than Barbossa getting straight up resurrected by an actual goddess because said goddess needs him to go fetch an idiot for her. Or, you know, basically anything that happens to Jack ever.

They're pirates, after all. Merit isn't the point. Grabbing whatever comes in range of you and using it for your own profit and/or amusement is. And Elizabeth, bless her, wasn't behind the fence when that lesson was getting handed out. In that sense, she fits right in.

[(Anonymous)]

But part of OP's point is that some fans are acting like Elizabeth is achieving these things on her own merit and not just a quirk of this universe that's shared by all the characters.

[sparklywalls]

I'm in the weird position where I never particularly cared for Will or Elizabeth and was here for the secondary characters and also Jack. Then Jack started to become less fun the more they increased his front and centre presence in the stories and the fifth film basically said "lol fuck that" to any sense of continuity or established universe rules. I'm starting to honestly feel I don't care anymore. Even without being bothered by them, I was even pissed off at how it retcons Will and Elizabeth's end credits arc in AWE. Then despite all the curses in the world apparently being broken the shadow of cursed Davy Jones shows up over Will and Elizabeth's bed? I know they're not meant to be highly intellectual or anything but does anyone even know what they're doing with these films anymore? For real I will take Elizabeth being made Pirate King because reasons over "everything you watched previously doesn't matter" any day.

[philstar22]

I liked her in the first movie. I liked everyone in the first movie. But I haven't liked any of the other movies in this series. I wish it had stayed a standalone.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know that she was a great choice for pirate king, but I think it's weird that you discount her because of the things she doesn't choose: who she was born and what she was expected to be, and other people's reactions to her and her appearance.

She may not be an amazingly well-written character, but surely her own choices and actions are far more relevant in determining what she does and doesn't deserve. If her involvement with pirate culture stopped at childhood interest, I would see your point, but it didn't.

I'm neutral on her character, but to me, your rant does sound exactly like "but she's a giiiiiiiiiiiiiirl!".
You can't change that by stating you're not being sexist if you don't then back it up with solid reasoning.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. There's no reason a blacksmith would be any better at piracy just because his missing dad happened to be one, and I don't see anyone complaining about how Will ended up captain of the Flying Dutchman by sheer chance.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't choose to be born with genes that make me super short sighted. But people are still 100% correct to suggest that I'd make a terrible sniper. It's not discrimination against my gender. OP's reasoning isn't about her birth and expectations, it's about the fact that her gender, birth and the expectations people had of her likely meant that she's received very little training ir exposure to the skills that would make a good pirate king. I don't really see how that's sexist.

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone always says they dislike male characters for the same reasons, but I've never heard anyone complain about how a male character's skill set or position in life means the whole character is poorly written or overpowered.

[(Anonymous)]

There are people in this thread doing it for Will's fighting ability.

[(Anonymous)]

looking at the responses to this and it makes me think that maybe if the original movie had come out ten years earlier or later we would have gotten a prequel series set in the time skip from after the prologue scene. Like, early teen Elizabeth running around raising hell and hunting up every scrap of information on pirates that she can, accosting sailors in taverns she shouldn't be able to sneak into. Will at the beginning of his apprenticeship, making moon-eyes after her and getting reluctantly dragged into her shenanigans. Norrington being an awkward turtle and climbing the naval ladder, but also inexplicably being asked to keep Elizabeth out of trouble. Whatever happened to Gibbs! Older teen Anamaria, probably disguised as a boy and sailing. Will probably has other apprentice friends, and Elizabeth's lady's maid as an agemate. Early-bird cameos from some of the pirates we meet in the later movies, often in unexpected places! Vague rumors hinting at the Black Pearl! A multi-episode plot arc revolving around Tia Dalma, that gets magically (and conveniently) erased from everyone involved's memories after the resolution. No Captain Jack Sparrow! Awkwardly writing around the realities of the slave trade! (not that they didn't do that for a majority of the movies...)

[(Anonymous)]

I appreciate this secret.

I remember when she became pirate king, and I just had to roll my eyes. Now, whether that had to do with the fact that I was still bitter from her betraying Jack AND her own man, is a possibility, but I also won't deny that it might have had to do with your second point. She's so special, huh? I just had to call BULLSHIT, as if she's the only woman blah blah blah.

I think part of me has an issue with this most beloved of my franchises (and indeed it is) because of a lack of PoCs in main character roles (yes, we have Tia Dalma, Annamaria, and numerous unnamed folk, but they were secondary characters. And as someone from the Caribbean (Latin side, if you will) I certainly expected to see far more black people, in the very least...the years these films were taking place, King George was in power, the guillotine was invented by the last movie...that s at least 200 to 300 years since the (port royal was founded in 1509, so 200 years at least) are you telling me you couldn't have a main character be a PoC, even as a villain? Come on. So yeah, Tia Dalma being overlooked by Sao Feng was annoying, along with everyone tripping over themselves for Elizabeth (as they have for most of the movies) . And Dalma is relegated again to be second string.

I have a lot of feeling about this. Thanks for the secret, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm so confused, didn't she only become pirate king because Jack told her everyone votes for themselves so she voted for herself and then Jack voted for her, so he could push his own agenda? Does the title pirate king even matter after they...did whatever they needed to get done? it's been a while since I've watched the 2nd and 3rd movies but I always felt like it was a thing where...yeah technically she was voted king for a while but then she went to live on an island with her kids and never thought about it again