[ SECRET POST #4311 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4311 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 23 secrets from Secret Submission Post #617.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

I enjoy fanfic, I write it myself, but I cannot take anyone who tries to claim that it's better than published writing seriously.

There are absolutely good writers in fandom, but 95% of us are not. We're writing easily digestible ID fic, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not the same as coming up with an original setting, characters, and plot. And in all honestly fanfic is every bit as derivative as mainstream works, just in different ways so that it can almost seem like we're somehow better than those silly and unimaginative published writers.

Its a good place to start-out and learn, but it's not some hidden bastion of untapped talent. Writing original stuff is hard, a lot harder than fanfic in my opinion.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[tabaqui]

Hard disagree.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

Wait... you seriously think that writing about established characters in a premade world isn't easier than actually building that world+characters yourself and writing about them?

Okay.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

DA I honestly find it way easier to work on my original stories with my own characters than working with somebody else's characters in a fic. I know my characters and I know their world. I know how they feel and what they'd say. When I'm writing a fic, I'm more hesitant about what I write because I'm constantly checking on details and rewatching specific scenes to see how those characters would act in the situations I'm writing them in.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[tabaqui]

No, i seriously think that there are fanfic authors out there who write far and way better than a lot of published authors, particularly considering how many alternate universe and alternate history and side-character fics there are out there.

A lot of fanfic only uses the thinnest scraping of the established character and world (we see complaints about this all the time in F!S). And 'profic' leans on, borrows, and makes their own AU worlds *all the time*.

Something else we've talked about here and in fandom in general - a lot of profic is simply retelling a story that's already been told (like Clueless retelling Emma).

So - i think your statement was wrong in a lot of ways, and i very much disagree with 98 percent of it.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[tabaqui]

And, also - just because you find original fic harder than fanfic doesn't mean your original fic (or anyone's original fic) is automatically 'better' than profic. Holy gods, have you *read* 99 percent of romance stories? Of the Stephen King rip-offs. Some of Stephan King's stuff?

Have you read Dan Brown?

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, it's easier to come up with your own shit because you can do whatever the fuck you want, dude.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

"better" in what sense

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

You know, now that I write almost exclusively original fiction... I 90% agree with you. Writing totally original stuff is largely a different skillset. Even though plotting fanfiction takes a similar skill, it's just so different to introduce brand new characters and elements than it is to introduce things you already expect your audience to be familiar with. Plus, hammering out solid original concepts is a ton of work. In fanfiction, that's already done.

But I do think fanfiction, on a technical and habitual level, gets you used to writing. Sure, you can develop bad habits by reading and writing bad fanfiction, but at least you're writing. Being able to shoot out actual words is a huge portion of the battle. Plus, in most cases, you probably are improving - whether it's by improving your vocabulary or getting better at descriptions.

But yes, most fanfiction is "easily digestible". That being said, there are truly some amazing ones out there.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

This. I write both, and have written both for years. I've heard it argued that fanfiction is good practice for writing original and I think... well, only up until a point. It's as you said, you get used to sitting down and producing words. But there are a lot of skills original fiction calls for that fanfiction does not - or at least, not to the extent that original fiction requires.

Original fiction also doesn't rely so heavily on fandom specific tropes and pairings for popularity. You have to write an engaging story and make up your own engaging characters. You don't have fandom expectations and backstory to rely upon, or favorite ships to build off of.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree. There are exceptions as always (yes, there are SOME fanfic writers who are better than SOME published writers) but I am very picky about writing and for that reason I just can't read most fanfic because it is really, really not well-written or interesting. I keep trying to like it and keep giving up. The worst published books I read tend to be on the same level as a mediocre to pretty good fanfic, comparatively.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

IA. Standards are different for fanfiction...arguably lower in some ways. Fanfiction writers don't need to develop their world building character writing skills because fanfiction doesn't demand that of them.

People tend to conflate "story I really liked" with good quality writing.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

People tend to conflate "story I really liked" with good quality writing.

I mean

I can think of worse metrics for good quality writing

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but... I think that's ayrt's point. It's more apples and oranges than a lot of people seem willing to admit. The factors that figure into why people like or enjoy things have some overlap with quality, perhaps, but it's a lot more complicated than that. It's like when there's a thread about awful movies you love - that right there is recognition that quality =/= enjoyment.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

I mean.. I really liked "Straight Skaterboy Twink Gets Fucked By Horny Big-Dick Plumber", but I wouldn't argue its larger merits as a film.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[tabaqui]

Lots of fanfic has amazing world-building, though.....

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

And is that world building part of the canon, or is it the author's original world building?

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

People tend to conflate "story I really liked" with good quality writing.

And what we're taught is "good quality writing" is largely the Classics AKA White Male Literature glorifying white men in some way, except things by the occasional woman and the occasional story that's actually enjoyable or a critique of white men.

I'd rather a story I enjoy, please, than something that's meant to be a work of art.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[rosehiptea]

I wouldn't put the percentage as high as 95%, but I'll admit it's hard for me to relate to the idea that fanfiction is better than published fiction. It's a matter of opinion but that seems to be the opinion of a huge number of people and I love reading published fiction.

For me writing original stuff is harder. I'm not saying writing fanfic is easy because it's not, but for me it's much harder to make up characters and make them interesting than it is to use someone else's characters who are already interesting. But I get that that's my experience and not true for everybody.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

Off topic, but OMG Spot! I loved those books when I was little :D

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... if you define fanfiction simply as “fiction based on a previously created work”, then the vast majority of creative works are fanfiction.

The Aeneid is fanfiction of the Trojan war, the Oedipus trilogy is fanfiction of the myth of Oedipus, the Divine Comedy is fanfiction of the Bible, La Morte D’Arthur is fanfiction of the King Arthur myth. Going to more recent times you have things like The Wide Sargasso Sea (fanfiction of Jane Eyre) Ben Hur (fanfiction of the New Testament) and writers like Gregory Maguire and Alan Moore have pretty much made their careers out of writing stories based on past creators’ work. And just because they’re writing in a pre-established universe doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easier than writing original work, because a lot of times they’re not “just” writing about pre-existing characters they’re frequently using these well-established characters as jumping off points to explore larger issues related to either the characters/original stories themselves or the historical environment in which they were created, which requires a certain level of research, understanding and care. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that writing “original” works is somehow intrinsically more difficult than writing fanfic, I think they both have unique challenges.

Sorry for the off topic ramble, I just get kind of irritated when people define fanfiction as just “nearly written porn about fictional characters thrown up on ff.net” when the whole concept of derivative works goes back millennia.

Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

What does irritate me though is when people say a writer is “better than the actual writers” or “should be writing the show/books/whatever” when it’s clearly just that the fanfic hits popular pairings/plots/headcanons. Like I swear to God 90% of the most popular fics in the Captain American fandom are godawful but because they have Angsty Twu Luv Foreva Stucky/Stony they’re considered amazing.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

I mean... if you define fanfiction simply as “fiction based on a previously created work”, then the vast majority of creative works are fanfiction.

But, I mean, is that actually a useful definition of fanfiction? It's a valid definition, but I don't think that it's the only possible definition, and I don't think it matches up with the most common usage. I think that, most of the time, when people talk about fanfiction, they mean "the fiction produced by fandom". Not derivative works in general.

And there are times when it is actually useful and meaningful to talk about the specific kinds of fiction produced by fandom, not derivative works in general.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

Fanfiction isn't really defined as works derived from or inspired by existing stories. It's specifically works set within the parameters of an already-established canon.

There's certainly some gray area, but I think it's a little indulgent to call a fiction based on the Trojan war a fanfic, in the way fanfiction is used as a genre.

Re: Fandom secrets you can't be bothered to make

[(Anonymous)]

You're right and you should say it, because, most people don't want to admit the classics are largely just published fanfic that got away with it.