Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2008-09-24 05:06 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2008-09-24 05:06 pm
[ SECRET POST #628 ]
⌈ Secret Post #628 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
CITY! http://lolbuttsex.myminicity.com/
Also this is the BEST SONG EVER → YOUTUBE | DOWNLOAD
Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 154 secrets from Secret Submission Post #090.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to
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fandomsecrets_o ].Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
107. People comment more on fanfiction than than original fic. People comment more on fanart than original art. It's the way things go. Y'gotta realise that much as something means to you, they don't know it, and they're not familiar with it yet. Just because they're not as interested in your good story as your fun slash doesn't mean they want you to Give Up Your Dreams. It's okay, man, it's okay.
116. I think OTP means more than that these days. Or at least...I like shipping things. I consider Rose/Doctor to by my DW OTP--they're the ship that makes me feel warm and cosy and I believe in them. But it betrays the nature of the Doctor to think that if he's gonna have romance, it would only be once in his very long life when he's a man with they much love. So I can't help but ship him with Evelyn and Romana and maybe even a little bit of Jamie (I'm not sure if that one stays platonic or not for me) and a few others as well. The OTP is my favourite, but there are others. Which, I guess, defeats the whole "One"-ness of the deal.
Also, repeat.
124. *snerk* Who wouldn't laugh; that's beautifully phrased.
125. LOL! I wanna know where these are from (because now I kinda want the TOUCH one). Um...for some reason, the only fandom I'm coming up with is Transformers or Zim. SCIENCE!
132. I kind of think I know the feeling. It seems like that happens a lot with my fic, especially the Toad stuff.
148. Awwww...
153. WAHH, PEOPLE WILL LIKE THIS CHARACTER IN A WAY I DON'T AGREE WITH I WAS HERE FIRST WAAAAH.
155. Repeat.
161. YES! YESYESYESYES! I heart them so so so much! I want a relationship where we can mock each other and tease and be playful, and where even if we get really mad and wind up yelling and saying hurtful things, we still forgive each other at the end of it all and go back to each other. "Perfect" romances are cute in movies, but I want an enduring one.
Plus, when they "flirt" it's just about the cutest thing ever.
What? 1-- You write fanfic in Gaelic?
53
There's a difference between liking a character differently and being a fangull. I have nothing against people who think a character is hot, because let's face it, being a BAMF is hot. I do think that there is something fundamentally wrong with people who SQUEE over characters like the Joker and Rorschach, both of which are NOT lovey-dovey wooblies, like they're both just misunderstood knights in shining armour.
Re: 53
What I don't understand is why anyone would suffer through a Sue-fic. The summary alone, more than half the time, is enough to make it obvious. If not, within a paragraph, the writing should tell. And then...You don't read it! MAGIC!
Re: 53
What I don't get is why
The most frustrating thing is knowing that this is going to happen to another fandom, and another, and another, and there's nothing that can be done about it.
Re: 53
I get that it's annoying to want to find good fanart/fic of something, and have to wade through a pit of voles, because just about every freaking fandom is like that. Heck, me, I don't care for slash. Do you have any idea what looking for het-fic is like in most fandoms? Watching a character I love being "mishandled?" Yo, big Pippin-fan me, but try finding anyone who doesn't think he's sweet-but-stupid, thanks to the movies. Try finding anyone who thinks Legolas is more of a spazzy jerk than a pretty-boy. It's tiresome, but not enough to prompt excessive grumping.
But what I don't get is why vitriol makes it any better. The same intellegent people who were in a fandom before are still in it now, and their intellegence is not somehow lessened by the sudden infection of new, occassionally stupid blood. If you're getting upset because a fictional character you love is being "mishandled" by a bunch of teenyboppers in a fanfic, well...y'know, I don't even know what to say to that, except that maybe you're just a person who like to be upset about things. (Which would explain a lot of this conversation, I think.)
People always complain about the New Thing bringing in New Kinds of fans. I'm sure there are old comic-fans who hate the generation that was inducted into Batman fandom via TAS and characterizes the cast that way. And there are Star Trek TOS fans who despise Next Generation fans, Next Generation fans who despise Voyager fans, etc, because people are paying attention to the shiny new thing of the time, and suddenly, no one seems to care about Chekhov, unless they're slashing him oh-so-sexily with Sulu or something. (Heck, the slash thing comes into play--Kirk/Spock>Chapel/Spock forever, apparently.) Or the Whovians who'd grown up on Doctor Who especially tended to think that everyone who came into the show from the new series was a piece of trash, especially if they dared to like certain characters or relationships from the new show. Even for the fans who wanted to learn more about what the show was, it became intimidating and overall and unwelcoming place to be--which largely contributed to most newfans never going into the show's roots. Heck, I do watch the old series now, and I still avoid the online fandom because it's just not a pleasant place to be, because someone always has a problem with anyone else.
The reason I'll take the "fangulls" over the haters is simple--at least what they're doing is an act of love. Or rather, shallow as it tends to be, and act of positive emotion. There's no malice in 'em. Stupidity in droves, but no hatred, no anger directed at fellow fans. They're having a wonderful time in spite of their stupidity. That, in it's own weird, do-not-exceed-reccommended dosage way, is what's so refreshing, compared to bitter elitism.
*And by "don't tolerate" I mean that I'm just gonna point out that it's silly.
Re: 53
Have you ever MET a fangull? HAVE YOU?
Seriously. Answer me this. Because a lot of the Batman fangulls I've met have been EXTREMELY against anyone who interferes with their OTP. I mean, it's the fangulls who drove me out of Doctor Who because I couldn't put up with all the Ten squee and Nine? UGH, the wars between who was the better companion, and such. At least as far as I could tell, that was fangulls.
Also, way to assume, there. Way to assume. The touch of ad hominem is particularly refreshing in it's subtlety.
Why am I wasting my time on you? If I'm acting like my opinion is holy, I don't even know what words describe YOUR opinion. I mean, Hell, normally if I make a throwaway comment, I just reply to anyone who tries to start a debate about it with a "Hey, I was just joking." I don't launch into a whole diatribe about how I'm right and they're wrong. And believe me, if all you'd said in reply to my initial comment was that it was just a joke, I'd have apologised and moved on. Now? Now I just think you wanted someone to try and argue with you, and now that you're sick of arguing because I'm not prostrating myself at your feet and begging forgiveness for the 'error' of my ways, it's all just a joke and I'm just too serious.
Re: 53
That was just a fantastic, head-spinning turn-around from the first two "Meh, okay" comments. Wooooow.
Did I say you were acting like your opinion was holy? I don't recall. I'm actually more than a little shocked at how much offense you're taking where none was offered. It's impressive, and not just a little scary. I'm picturing firebreathing.
So I don't respond to a comment the same way you would? I'm sorry, I just assumed that anyone who took an all caps comment serious was looking for a debate, and what the heck, I'm glad to oblige.
If I've got an ad hominem fallacy, good grief, you're running up the hyperbole with all this gear about me wanting you to "prostrate myself at your feet...begging forgiveness." What. In the world? That sudden, terrifying defensive streak just sounds like you're tired of the debate and trying to end it in a way that makes me seem horrible or something. The statement was just a joke from the beginning and that should've been obvious, my opinions stated afterwards were not. And by joke, I don't mean y'know, I meant the exact opposite. I meant I was just posting my opinion of the secret in a sarcastic way. You do that here--post opinions. Goodness gracious me, it looks like mine was wrong. I am so, so sorry that in a debate started with more than a hint of belligerence on both parts, you failed to change my opinion of something. Gosh, you're right, I'm a horrible person.
Re: 53
I can't say I actually had a screaming problem with the oodles of Joker fangirls. Oh no, so somebody thinks he's hawt and wrote a horrible fic about curing him and making him better, and just funny and harmlessly insane...Wow, how will I ever--oh. I guess by not reading it. It swelled up with the movie, it died down, it will continue to do so, and the fangirls left won't be any different than the fangirls that were there before (because c'mon, even before the movie, there were the teeny-bopper Joker fans. They've just increased temporarily).
This is fandom. Bad fanfic comes with the territory. Heck, even the majority of genfic just plain sucks. I just don't understand the ZOMGOSHHISSSSSS!!! reaction to a temporary infestation of squee-girls. They're adorable, in a kind of annoying way, but it's not the big drama-deal that everyone makes it out to be.
Haters, I find, are always infinitely more annoying than what they hate. The Rose-haters got far more prevelant than the "Rosefen" and were much more vocal and offensive about it. The "I'M SO SICK OF TDK SECRETS" secret got insanely more annoying than any of the "I'd hit it" secrets. And this...is just more of the same.
Wah, people enjoy something in a different way than me, they're wrong and they're destroying the fandumb. Really, sorry, that's all I'm hearing.
Re: 53
It's NOT cute. I'm sorry, I'm in fandom for the intelligent stuff, the thought provoking fic, the stuff that makes me go "Hey, this totally fits with canon", the well-written. I'm in fandom for things that are actually amusing. I'm in fandom to see if maybe someone can make something other than the canon pairing actually work.
I'm NOT in fandom to just squee and giggle and think that EVERYTHING goes. I don't mind the existence of the fangulls. In fact, I avoid certain places because I used to be a fangull and I know where they flock. I just really would like to be able to search for fanfic or fanart and not see a bunch of squee in what was once a pretty cool place. I'd like to be able to find more Batman comms that aren't all full of annoying squee.
I'd like to think I'm pretty live and let live about the annoying fangirls, because a lot of people start out that way. It's the people who write horribly and take all critique as trolling that get to me. It's the people who say that they know X character is OOC and they DON'T CARE that get to me. It's the people who only write for reviews that get to me.
Except, you know, I just avoid them. I shake my head and move on, because I know they're just going to move on to the next fandom du jour. I don't get as worked up about them as you seem to get worked up about people who make a secret about disliking them. Hey, at least they aren't saying this to their faces.
Honestly, people like you are more annoying than fangulls.
Re: 53
Honestly, people like you are more annoying than fangulls
Odd, because that's what I've just said over and over about people like you. Funny, that.
I like that I'm the one not realising that "hey, maybe not everyone is like me." Or rather, you realise that, you're just extremely intolerant of the fact. You say you don't mind the existance of fangulls, but that seems a bit at odds with your paragraphs of distain and, well, downright vitriol.
Actually, almost everything you say here seems to be at odds with what you're doing, and almost everything you're accusing me of seems to be fairly applicable to you as well. You say you don't get worked up--you've just spend two/three comments arguing with me about how fangulls suck, in response to a sarcastic-lolspeak comment of mine that you seem to consider being "worked up." (I assure you, it was typical flipness from me).
I hate the whingers who can't take critique, I hate the OOC writers. I will never get people who withhold chapters until they get X-number of reviews. The fangullness, it is cute, though, sorry, in a pathetic way. As you say, you used to be one. Almost everyone did. That's why it's cute--it's nostalgic, it's painful, and it's a little like looking at a particularly ugly and stupid puppy and wondering what it will be like when it grows up.
(For that matter, and going into judgementalness, I'm so tired of seeing these derogatory names that fans make up for other fans like "fangulls" and "fen" and the like. Seriously, is it all just about trying to prove your duck is better?)
Apparently, though, my opinions make me judgemental, despite the fact that there's really no vitriol or malice, simply an honest sigh because hate tears fandom apart and makes it more unpleasant than even the stupidest squeeing. But your opinions are holy and special and must be validated, because you're more right, I guess.
I think you're just looking to pick a fight, because I am not more intent on saying how whiny you are than listening to reason. I am waiting for the reason, reason that doesn't contradict itself, and reason that, well, makes sense.
I like to think of fandom as a happy place, with its fair dose of sarcasm and mockery. Family like. Elitism that declares that Only Our Kind Of Fan-type should exist is just...tiresome at this point. I see it all over, and it never actually contributes anything except grumping, which, admittedly, is something all fans love to do, possibly even more than squeeing.
...
I've never had this much wank result from a sarcastic CAPS comment before. It's kind of hilarious.
Re: 53
I don't get why no one thinks it's possible to dislike something, but not be actively against it and to possibly even *gasp* ignore it. It's like when I get into a discussion about abortion. The moment I mention my views, everyone immediately assumes that I believe in X and I do Y, and no one can wrap their minds around the fact that while I believe what I do, I don't really expect other people to care. I don't really plan on forcing my beliefs on other people. Sure, I'll get on my soapbox or I'll debate about it in a place where I know there are people who, while they disagree with me, won't tar me with the brushes used for the extremists who hold an opinion similar to mine, but do I ever expect anyone to do something because it's what I think is morally right? No. It's your body.
Just like fandom. I don't like fangulls. Depending on my mood I'll either read their stuff to see if they've got potential to be more than just a fangull yet, or if they're still forming as a fan and haven't quite got to where they care about more than just the fandom and character du jour; or I'll just pass right on by. I don't like fangulls because I used to be one, and I don't feel any sense of nostalgia for myself as a fangull. I look back at that and go, "Oh my God, why didn't I actually use my brain instead of just squealing over how cute Neo is or how stupid Chibi-Usa is?". There is nothing cute about that to me. Of course, I may just be a harsh, demanding person, both of myself and others, but moreso of myself.
Ah, but then, most people appear to be of the opinion that humans must never ever be contradictory. If you're going to be something, then everything you say and do has to support that. While I'm not a fan of blatant hypocrisy, like people who claim to be honest sweetness and light but turn out to be the kind of person who will make shit up about you if you rub them wrong, I do realise that people are complex creatures, and what they say and what they do might not necessarily add up at first glance.
Re: 53
This isn't the worst wank I've seen by a long shot; it's just unexpectedly in depth from a simple, lolspeak comment.
So you don't have the nostalgia over your old self. Fine, that's cool, and that explains why you dislike the fangulls. Maybe that's why I find them endearing if annoying. That was highschool for me, and highschool was a very good time--I made most of my best friends when we were in the fangull stage, even though we've grown up and out of it now, we're still tight, and we can always get a laugh out of "Oh man, remember that night we stayed up, fueled on Parmesean Goldfish, writing a fic about going to Ancient China and falling madly in love with Tasuki and Chichiri?" It was bad, it was painful, but it was fun then. I remember the fun above all else, even if I wouldn't find it fun now, and I just can't bring myself to really, truly begrudge the little newfen their chance to have that kind of fun now while they're new and stupid.
no subject
Oh for the love of pants...
I'm sorry, but...elitist much? Our Fandom is so good, so clean, so wholesome...
I promise you, there are those sorts of fans in the Watchmen fandom already. Betcha if you type it into devArt, you'll find cute little chibis of Rorcharch and Night Owl cuddling up and being adorable, eating ice cream or something. Or worse.
You acknowledge that the crazies will move on. So why does it bother you? Why does it even affect you? That's the bit that I don't get, really. I just ignored the badfic and had a good chuckle over the really stupid secrets that popped up and moved on.
I don't know, maybe I got over this sort of thing long ago because my SRS BZNS thing was LotR and...well...I dealt with the Orlegolas fans and the Adorable-and-Stupid-Pippin fans and the ZOMIGOSH Frodo'sblueeyesaregorgeousandheandSamaretotallyscrewinginMordorteeheeNekkidFrodo! fans as well and just learned to take it in stride. And honestly, I think it was much harder on the LotR fandom (because try finding new fanart that isn't movie-based, man), whereas the lasting impact on Watchmen fandom will be considerably smaller. At any rate, it didn't ruin the fandom. It left a few hundred crazies in it, but hey, the cool people are still there.
Crazies don't detract from a fandom. Angries do.
no subject
You acknowledge that the crazies don't bother you. You acknowledge that you've moved past SRS BZNS. So why do we who take fandom a bit more seriously bother you? Why do we even affect you? That's the bit I don't get, really. I just tend to ignore the people who can't understand how I think and have a good chuckle over the really stupid secrets and commenters and move on.
Crazies make me roll my eyes. Angries amuse the Hell out of me.
Let people blow off steam in secrets without getting jumped on as a ZOMG ELEEETIST, for crying out loud. I know I'd post something like that just so I don't snap at the next innocent little newfen that comes along squeeing about the Joker. I'd MUCH rather see someone post something like this as a secret or behind many a friend's lock than read some flame to a Mary-Sue fic that I dragged myself through because, damnit, the potential is there if this is someone who will accept well-meaning critique and not BAWWW about how mean I am. I really don't get the sort of people who would express the dislike to a person's face, so to speak.
Heck, some of the snarkiest people I know behind closed doors then go out and offer the most amazing advice and support to new people. It's a way of letting off steam so we don't snap at them for something that is probably really stupid to be annoyed about, but when it's the same thing day in and day out it eventually rubs the wrong way. Just like most cashiers will tell you that they hate the line, "Oh, if it doesn't scan then it's free!", fen who've been around a while will admit they hate the line "so, here's my new ficcie about *character* and my OFC *name*! I hope you enjoy", but the best of them will grit their teeth, plod through, and say, "Hey, you've got a good concept here, but if you tweak this, this, and maybe flesh that out a little, you could have an even better fic!".
The only reason I'm still debating this with you is because you seem like a fairly reasonable person, and I can't figure out why there's such a disconnect in logic going on here.
no subject
Well, to quote Catherine Tate, "I'm not bovvered." Or rather, I'm still not taking it as serious business. I just think it's silly that there's already whiny wank about something that hasn't even happened yet.
These fangulls have not shown up yet. They will, quite likely, though in less force than they did for the Joker, I'm sure. But for now, they are not here with appreciably greater presence than they were a month, two months, a year ago, And yet...people are already angry at them. At a group of fans who, as of the moment, don't even exist yet. We've already had, what, three secrets about how annoyed people will be when it happens.
So...if the newfen are going to be making stupid for, oh, say, three/four months after the movie comes out, and the angry-folk are going to grump about how stupid the stupid is for the entire three/four months, plus the preceding three/four months, and will probably trickle off about a month or so after the larger part of the stupid has died down (as with the "I'm sick of TDK/Joker secrets" outnumbering the "I'd hit the Joker" secrets towards the end)... which one am I going to be more tired of first? That's me.
Closed doors is one thing. F!S is not technically closed doors--it's posted for all the world to see.
Crazies make me roll my eyes. Angries amuse the Hell out of me.
Well, then, we have polar opinions on a matter. Goodness, the internet may crack.
Just like most cashiers will tell you that they hate the line, "Oh, if it doesn't scan then it's free!"
*headdeskheaddeskheaddeskheaddesk*
bad memories...such bad memories... in ten different languages...
There is no "disconnect" in logic. There's your opinion and there's mine. Just because I don't agree with your feelings does not make me illogical.
OP of what? 1
(Anonymous) 2008-09-25 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)Re: OP of what? 1