[ SECRET POST #4856 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4856 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #694.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/38jXaRg.png

[(Anonymous)]

I remember people saying Peter Capaldi was a great actor and a fine Doctor (after they got over complaining that he was "too old" to be the Doctor), but the writing didn't do him justice, so it's kinda funny now to hear people saying pretty much the same thing about Jodie Whittaker. I wasn't in the fandom before Twelve, so I don't know if people said similar things about previous Doctors. To me, the writing has felt a little disjointed at times, but that's really nothing new. I really disliked the writing during most of Eleven's run and I didn't like most of Ten's episodes with Rose.

[(Anonymous)]

Part of the problem is that Doctor Who fans don't necessarily agree about what is good writing. Some people really hate RTD and love Moffat; some people love RTD and hate Moffat. And really, both writers have plenty of things they do great and plenty of things they're flawed at, so there's not really a write answer in the first place.

[philstar22]

This. Although to hear some fans tell it their view of what is bad writing is objective and everyone or most people agree with them.

I'm one of those who didn't like RTD's era as much, though it wasn't necessarily entirely or mostly a writing issue. It was a Doctor/companion dynamic issue for me and then some fundamental issues with 10 in general.

But Moffat was a vast improvement for me. And I'm loving the current era a lot, though not quite as much as the previous one. But RTD's era is still my least favorite.

Honestly, though, Who is Who. It always has new Doctors, Companions, and Showrunners. It is always changing. That is how it is. Those who don't like the current stuff can just wait it out until the next showrunner comes along. Not every era will be for everyone, and that is okay.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's true that the writing is wildly uneven, and even the good writing is good in very specific kinds of ways, and often even the well-written bits have dodgy elements. But some Doctor Who writing is good, both on classic Who and New Who. And what's more, the quality of the writing is hugely impactful on the quality of the output.

Look at Blink or Silence In The Library / Forests of the Dead, for instance - magnificent, great episodes of Doctor Who that are great in large parts because Moffat wrote brilliant scripts with great conceptual business linked to really strong emotional beats. Compare the Cartmel and Saward eras of classic Who - the same producer across both eras, probably a higher budget during the Saward era, plenty of skilled performers in each, but the Cartmel era is a million times better largely on the strength of the writing. If anything, Doctor Who is uniquely dependent on the quality of the writing, as an expansive and often bizarre science fiction show with a comparatively low budget. And that's also probably why the franchise was able to survive for 15 years solely on books and radio scripts.

I shouldn't say you're wrong, really. I'm sure there is a way to enjoy Doctor Who that has nothing to do with the quality of the writing, I just don't know what it is.

[philstar22]

But what is and isn't quality writing is subjective. There is no universal standard, and people disagree on what are good and well written episodes and what aren't.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

[(Anonymous)]

I think once you get past technical aspects, what's considered good writing really depends on the person. I like the episodes you listed, but I wouldn't consider them magnificent. Episodes like Vincent and the Doctor, The Girl in the Fireplace, Listen, and Demons of the Punjab are the ones I would consider magnificent. I also know some people would wildly disagree with me and say those episodes are merely okay or not good at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that's fine, you can argue about which episodes are well-written, my overall point is more that the quality of the writing matters a lot for the quality of the show

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't been enjoying these last two seasons. And it's not the Doctor, or the Doctor being a woman. It's because I need a codependent relationship between the Doctor and the companion. Whether that relationship is romantic or not. I need that feeling of being completely devoted to one person, from both sides.

This is just "the Doctor hangs with her mates" and I'm not feeling it.

[philstar22]

I'm getting a cross between the mates vibe of Ten and Donna or Twelve and Bill and the Family vibe of Eleven, Amy, Rory, and River. The best of both worlds for me.

[(Anonymous)]

Compared to those groups though, I don't get the same vibes at all. The rest actually got a chance to be friends.

[(Anonymous)]

'This is just "the Doctor hangs with her mates" and I'm not feeling it.'

This is exactly how I've been feeling about the companions in new series. Its like there's barely there muted emotions to connect them as if they're coworkers having to coexist in the same environment until they've done what they needed to do.

[(Anonymous)]

I love the 13th doctor and her fam, and while the stories have interesting ideas, the execution itself leaves me... cold.
The cinematography is beautiful, but there's almost a seriousness to the tone that feels off-putting when you throw in magical frog aliens and unintentionally hilarious screaming grandmas.
I recently re-watched old!who on a whim, and this current series is pretty similar, tone-wise, whereas nu!who used to be more... campy.

I love campy stuff and I feel like 13th's run wants to be retro and mature.

But I also find that sometimes I either love or hate a season, irrelevant to its writer. For example I hated 11/Amy/Rory seasons but loved Clara's run with both 11 and 12 (unpopular opinion, I know). Or how I hated 10/Rose and 10/Martha but loved 10/Donna. Mind you, I love all of these companions.
Sometimes I just hate the roles they're squeezed in, or they aren't being given enough material. These newest companions are definitely underutilized, or when they do stuff they're spread too thin, and that affects my enjoyment a lot. I find I like the companions, but the only one I'm interested in is the Doctor.

[(Anonymous)]

People didn't like Clara with Twelve? I loved Clara and Twelve! Didn't much like her initially with Eleven, but I recently rewatched those episodes and now I'm fine with Clara and Eleven. I rewatched the episodes with Ten and Rose too, but man, I really didn't like them together and still don't. I do like them individually. I don't think I've ever met a companion I didn't like.

For Thirteen's fam, I liked Graham the most for a while. I kinda like Yaz a little more now and Ryan's all right, but I still feel like I don't really know them. I do love Thirteen though. She makes me smile.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Clara hate was strong, still is unfortunately :/

and same same same, Graham's the best but they need more stuff to do. Yaz's character arc is a lot of tell-not-show, and I find it hampers my enjoyment of her. Ryan's cool, but again, needs more content.

[(Anonymous)]

I made my peace with not being able to like the new doctor or the stories for the show. Doctor Who is a long running series and sometimes people aren't going to like every doctor character ever.
Good for people who enjoy 13's run, I genuinely hope they have as much fun watching the current series and have their own fun time in fandom away from bitter people like me. I have all the other doctor's episodes to rewatch before 12 to enjoy and unless the show gets cancelled I'll tune back in when someone else takes over.

[philstar22]

And you are awesome. You aren't trying to ruin it for those who are enjoying the current run.

It is the ones who try to ruin it for others who do enjoy that suck all the joy out of the fandom and ruin it for everyone. There are people of that type in all parts of the fandom, though.

I don't think anyone has a problem with fans like you who dislike things without ruining it for those who like them.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't watch doctor who for the amazing writing, I use to watch it for fun.
But if I have learned anything about the doctor who fandom since Moffat took over; the Doctor could literally be a plank of wood with a face painted on and dealing with an enemy like the slowly approaching slug for an hour, and someone out there would still defend it as a great show 'you just don't get'.

[(Anonymous)]

What bothered me about this Doctor is the lack of a longterm/ongoing story going on overall. Like it was very episode to episode and then some random overdramatic thing thrown in at the end. I've never particularly liked the writing in DW, but this season seemed seriously fragmented, nothing going on character-wise, very little everything else.
I think some of my disappointment comes from the fact that with a new cast, writer, doctor, I just expected better. Thing might be just as bad as Moffat, but like that's why they got someone new to take over right?

[(Anonymous)]

The writing was pretty good in the 70's.

[(Anonymous)]

Liking Doctor Who is a tricky and feeble matter. All sorts of things are going on with this show and not all of them are easily put into words, I feel.
It does seem to me like the writing, pacing, the message and Doctor-companions relationship got different in the 13th era and it doesn't 'vibe' with me. Then again, I disliked Moffat's era writing, but I could disregard it for Twelve and Clara, for example, simply cos I loved them individually and their dynamic. But I disliked the Ponds and the bad writing was extra glaring because of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you me? I agree with everything you've said. I couldn't stand the Ponds and was unimpressed with the whole Clara/11 run. I only tuned back in to the show for Capaldi and instantly fell in love with 12 & Clara and their chemistry. As much as I love Jodie too I've all but dropped the show again because the stories just don't stand up at all to the acting talent involved. I've enjoyed 1 whole episode from each of 13's seasons so far. I have no interest in watching a whole series in the hope that I might find 1 episode that I actually enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. The show isn't any better or worse than it has been in this new run. I do like this group of companions because at least so far, no one's been a special snowflake who decides the fate of the universe or at least the Doctor.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there's been more poorly thought out plots with Thirteen than with Twelve or Eleven, but Ten had his fair share! And I like Thirteen and companions a lot more than Twelve and Clara.