fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4897 ]

[ SECRET POST #4897 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4897 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

[ff7]

__________________________________________________

04.

[the promised neverland]

__________________________________________________

05.

[ojamajo doremi]

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

[fushigi yuugi]

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

[sailor moon]

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #701.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So a gay male friend of mine has said some stupid, sexist shit lately (about dudes asking women's dads for their permission to propose to them and the dads "giving" the women to the future husband like she's property or some shit), and when I was venting about it to a different friend that doesn't know him, her response was that I should give him a break because he's gay and therefore "doesn't understand women" since he doesn't have a wife/GF to educate him. Which is BS IMO because he's the only son in a family full of sisters and has a bunch of female friends so "he doesn't get women" is a dumb excuse to me.

On one hand, I'm super pissed at him but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt at least a little because overall he's a good guy and he's only human and we all say dumb stuff at times, but...IDK.

Am I just overreacting? Is it reasonable to hold gay guys to different standards than straight ones when it comes to sexism, and I'm just crazy? What do you guys think?

Aromantic asexual here to say you don't need to be attracted to people of a given gender in order to "get" them. What the fuck. You're right. He's wrong.

yeah, this.

Ew. It is not the job of women to continually educate adult men. He was taught as a child, he lives in a world where he can read women's perspectives on a whole range of issues with the click of a button. If he's ignoring all of that, then it's deliberate.

You can try giving him a wakeup call about his bullshit, maybe if he is actually a decent person he will change his behaviour and rethink his own prejudices, but honestly why would you want to stay friends with someone who thinks about women that way?

^This. I mean, OP could talk to their friend and say hey, that thing you said was kind of messed up and there's a sliiiiiiiiiight chance the friend would pause, give it some serious thought and apologize. But how often does that happen? My money is on a defensive reaction + more sexism, because frankly, that's the way to bet.

Yes. Women are socialised to be so apologetic and non-confrontational about misogyny too. Here is OP wondering if it's even okay to say anything or if there are special classes of men that should be forgiven for it. Women will always question their own intelligence before they question men's behaviour.

I've had conversations like that that turned out positively. If it goes that way, OP should drop the friend. But it is always worth a shot.

No, that's just stupid. By that logic straight guys would "get" women and... well, there's plenty of evidence suggesting that this is not automatically the case. Dumb sexist bullshit is dumb sexist bullshit, no matter what the sexual orientation of the person spouting it.

"Cut him some slack with the sexism because he's not around women a lot" is a giant load of bullshit.

(That said: I wouldn't support ending a friendship over that, especially if he's, as you say, overall a good guy.)

Is he a good guy though? Like what is the bar? He doesn't physically assault women? He doesn't insult them to their face? Is that the bar?

At best he's mildly shitty. If he stops being a rampant misogynist maybe he'll be neutral but is not being deliberately shitty really good? I'd say not.

If he was good he'd be calling out other men for saying those things. He'd be asking actual women for their opinions on things that involve them.

This.

This. So tired of men getting alllll the slack for being "good guys" when "good" is defined as "standards so incredibly low you'd have to be an utter cretin not to meet them". Besides, who needs even mildly shitty friends? Life's too short. Get out there, make friends who don't need you to make excuses for their sexism and misogyny.

I get that women especially receive a tremendous amount of pressure to be nice and forgiving about shitty men. Like maybe if we just explained it (gently, of course!) the shitty men would understand that sexism is bad? Even OP is wondering if geez, maybe their standards of not wanting their friend to say shitty, sexist things about women is asking too much? IT IS NOT ASKING TOO MUCH. When you put up with bullshit, your reward for being so nice and tolerant is more bullshit.

overall he's a good guy
That's what OP said.

I mean, maybe it's a good idea to not go nuclear just because your friend is dumb sometimes? Some people have blind spots, or views that would irritate the shit out of people more enlightened on a subject. I'm sure even you, OP, and everyone on this thread has a blind spot. Even I do.

I'm not saying give him a pass, but someone can generally be a good person while having views you don't necessarily agree with. (And if the views bother you, you can always challenge them.)

And I'm guessing someone is going to respond to this going OMG U SEXIST BAD PERSON FUCK. To which I say chill the fuck out and stop automatically assuming malice. It's not like the friend is claiming women need to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, only satisfying their man and never having any rights. Going off of what OP says, it just sounds like he's stuck on an antiquated custom and really hasn't gotten a clue. (Unless there are other instances of blatant sexism OP hasn't mentioned.) It's not really clear how the conversation about fathers giving daughters away in marriage came about.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the friend saying the guy needs a woman to educate him. No, he just needs to be educated, and it doesn't matter who does it.

+1, thank you

Nope. Sexism is sexism. You can be oppressed in one area and still privileged and discriminatory in another area.

LOL WHAT?

No.

That's the stupidest bullshit I've ever heard.

Like put aside that it's not the hypothetical wife or GF's job to educate any man, even if he didn't have sisters he could open a damn book.

That's like saying it's fine for a white person to say racist shit. Or it's okay for a straight person to be homophobic because they don't have any gay friends to teach them differently. See how dumb those arguments sound?

IMO call gay friend out on his bullshit but like, do it in a calm way.

And take everything the other friend says with a grain of salt because she is living in Upside-Down Land, lmao.

No. Hold them accountable. They're men, after all. I've been hurt badly by a gay man in particular. I thought that he would be nicer than straight guys and a feminist but he was just another toxic jackass-- he just fucked men instead of women. :(

So your friend's a proponent of the idea that men are simple creatures who are just naturally sexist unless they have a good woman to take care of them and show them the path to not being an asshole.

I hope you can see how that's bullshit.

Sometimes people say stupid shit. And sometimes people think they're being funny when they're not. So if you're going to give him the benefit of the doubt, it ought to be because you think he's generally a good guy and not because you've decided he's too gay to know any better.

Next time he says something stupid and sexist, call him on it. Ask him if he really believes whatever hurtful thing he just said. And don't go to your other friend for advice about anything important.

As a gay dude, your friend's comments would piss me off. There are a lot of women in my life who are really important to me, and women I admire, and I hate being around misogynistic men. I don't mean to like, brag or whatever by saying that, because I think that's pretty normal (or should be), I just don't think being gay is an excuse for "not understanding women," and the idea that it's women's responsibility to teach men basic decency is so dumb.

IDK your friend, so IDK whether this is something he'd be receptive to listening to you about, and whether your relationship is overall positive, but IMO you're completely in the right to be bothered by the stuff he's been saying. You're not being homophobic or whatever by disliking misogyny no matter who it's coming from, and IMO it's actually pretty homophobic for people to act like gay men are inherently more misogynistic.

No and no, but if you’re already giving him the benefit of the doubt and think he’s generally a good guy, is there any reason you haven’t talked to him directly about it? You’re not obligated to, but it sounds like it may be better than letting his views and your anger persist.

*reads nothing past the subject line*

No.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #4897 ]

Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?

Re: Should you give gay guys more of a pass for sexism than straight guys?