[ SECRET POST #5022 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5022 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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04. [WARNING for discussion of incest]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #719.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

while incest *can* be abusive, so can literally any other kind of relationship. it should be handled on a case by case basis whether a relationship -- ANY relationship including incestual ones -- is abusive or not. also, op, i 100% support and agree with you. incest, both irl and in fiction, can be absolutely beautiful. ♥

[(Anonymous)]

yes it's so beautiful how that parent groomed and abused their own child, look how beautiful it is! how magical!!! it's not abuse at all because we all know kids can consent to shit they don't understand.

[(Anonymous)]

No. No incest is almost always abusive. Power unbalances.

It should not be endorsed irl.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a troll under this bridge!

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt i'm not a troll tho? i'm legit serious.

[(Anonymous)]

wahahahahahahahaha

"incestual ships"

you're so obviously obviously a troll! it would only be clearer if you were waving around a club and wearing a loincloth lol

[(Anonymous)]

??? i have no idea what point you're trying to make.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I don't see any troll material. There are indeed many people who enjoy incest ships and expressing interest in them is not an inherently troll-y thing to say.

[(Anonymous)]

They don't seem like a troll to me. All I see is you freaking out and tilting at windmills.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT I'm not freaking out. I think it's a little funny.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey so if you're not being a troll and people are, like, 85% sure you're being a troll... that's a sign you need to maybe take a step back and think a little harder.

When people assume a person is a troll, the reasoning is always "NO ONE would actually SAY or THINK this!"

So... politely, from stranger, maybe consider why that's happening.

[(Anonymous)]

Real-life incest is in fact inherently abusive, the only cases where it wouldn't be are those separated-at-birth situations where a pair of sibs hook-up without knowing, otherwise it's always an adult(older sibs have been known to abuse their much younger siblings too) grooming and abusing a child for years. Nothing about that is beautiful or praise-worthy.

[(Anonymous)]

This seems to imply that, in every single case where two related people start having sex as adults, one of them was grooming the other when they were a child

While that might be true much of the time, I don't really understand why you think that it's true *in every single instance across the board*

And if it's not true in every single instance across the board, I don't understand how it's inherently abusive

+1

[(Anonymous)]

agreed! just because *some* incestual relationships are abusive, it doesn't mean they all are.

[(Anonymous)]

I... what?

I don't. I seriously don't understand what you're even trying to argue here. I said that pretty much all cases of real-life incest are an ADULT, grooming and preying on A CHILD. Which is very obviously abusive and beyond fucking abhorrent. The adult/adult cases are largely accidents(caused by neither half knowing they're related, which I literally said), and even in situations where they know they're related and boink I'd still argue that some kind of fucked-up power-imbalance was going on either within the pair or from an outside influence normalizing them into a situation that's incredibly damaging for the both of them.

And yes, it is in fact very possible for same-age relatives to abuse and groom another, or even each other, because the whole point is that incest is FUCKED regardless of how it happens.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree in the strongest possible terms that any relationship involving grooming and preying on a child is wrong. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. I don't want any kind of misunderstanding or accusation on this.

What I don't get is why you're saying that this is the case in all examples and that there *must* have been some kind of power imbalance even when the people involved are adults. I don't get why this has to be true across the board. Just because incest doesn't appeal to you or me doesn't mean that it has to be "fucked regardless of how it happens".

And it bugs me to make these kinds of blanket statements without some kind of very strong evidence for them. I don't like it.

[(Anonymous)]

Right you're a troll, I don't care, I'm done talking to you.

I don't care that it's a joke, you're 'ironically' trying to argue how abuse isn't abuse. Kindly go fuck yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

As an example, in my late teens I had a friend who was secretly in a relationship with her immediate cousin of the same age. It was troubling, of course. They were each other's first. She had issues. He had issues. Neither of them were in a good place, and I very much doubt the incestuous relationship would've occurred if either of them had been in a good place.

That said, it was not an abusive relationship. Unhealthy, yes, but abusive, no. And as her friend, I responded accordingly. I made sure my friend knew that I was there for her if she needed personal help, and I stayed well out of the rest of it. She's married now and has a kid. He's in a long term relationship as well. Their relationship was what it was, and then eventually they stopped. If her friends had lost their shit when she told us about it, I think it could've been a lot more damaging than it ended up being.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think the AYRT is a troll, and I think they're the same troll who posted the comment at the beginning of the thread. It's just a hunch, but they both use asterisks to emphasize words, which is common but Idk man, I just feel they're both characters written by the same person. #1 is dopey yaoi fan char and #2 is pseudo-activist type char.

[(Anonymous)]

while incest *can* be abusive, so can literally any other kind of relationship. it should be handled on a case by case basis whether a relationship -- ANY relationship including incestual ones -- is abusive or not.

I agree. To me this is just common sense.

However, I wouldn't call an incestuous relationship between siblings or cousins beautiful. I would call it worrisome. Because in cases where the relationship is not abusive, it's still a pretty safe bet that their attraction to each other isn't coming from a place of being emotionally and psychologically well adjusted.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it’s so beautiful when you’re locked in a laundry and forced to perform oral sex on an older sibling. So. Fuck. Ing. Beaut. Ti. Ful.

Again, fuck you

[(Anonymous)]

I understand your point, I used to believe it as well.

The problem with incest compared to other types of relationships is that the instances where it's abusive far outnumber instances where it's not. For every 100% consensual incestous relationships there is 10 non-consensual ones. The second issue is that it's virtually not possible to end the relationship with one's relative. You would still have to see them on family gatherings, still have to share a mother/grandma with them. This makes it significantly harder to have a healthy relationship.

In the case of incest, the harm done by legalizing it would vastly outweight the benefits.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

I'd say that incest is very much comparable to pedophilia. I have spoken with people saying things like "I used to date men in their 20s when I was 13 and I'm fine!", so it's entirely possible for a person to have experienced something like this and to not feel damaged by it, but again - the number of such people is dwarfed by the number of people, who have indeed been damaged. And it's not like I can look inside people's heads the way I can look inside the characters' heads, and see for myself if they really consented, or were manipulated into consenting.

[(Anonymous)]

You make good points. However, is anybody ITT arguing that incest should be legalized? I’m one of the people ITT saying that it’s not always abusive, but I’m still totally in favor of keeping it illegal.

I think the comparison with pedophilia is apt in the way you’re using it. But I also think it’s different in one fundamental way, which is that an adult who has sex with a 13-year-old knows they’re doing wrong, regardless of what the 13-year-old says. They know they’re violating the 13-year-old even if the 13-year-old says it’s fine. Whereas incest between adults of the same generation, or teens of the same age, may not involve a violator and a victim. It is entirely possible for both parties to want it and consent. (Like I said upthread, I have a dear friend who was sexually involved with her cousin. They were in their late teens, and for a while they wanted to run away together so they could be together.)

However, I do agree with you that incest is abusive far more often than it’s not, and that it should remain illegal, and should remain taboo.

I just wouldn’t paint every person who’d ever had an incestuous relationship or interaction as either a victim or an abuser. When it came to my friend and her cousin, they were neither. They were just two messed up, confused teenagers whose sexual impulses had gone awry.

[(Anonymous)]

My point is that going around saying "i don't have a problem with incest in real life, because I believe that it's possible for an incestous relationship to not be abusive" is like saying "I have no problem with pedophilia, because I believe that a relationship like that is not abusive".

an adult who has sex with a 13-year-old knows they’re doing wrong

And most people understand that incest is wrong. An adult doesn't necessarily "know" they're doing something wrong. I've seen some gross pedos on reddit genuinely arguing that it's safer for a child to explore their sexuality with an experienced adult than with another kid, who doesn't know what they're doing and might accidentally harm them. Not only to they believe that they're not abusing children - they believe they're saving these kids from abuse. And, like I've said before, there are teens out there who crush on adults and actively pursue such relationships, which only reaffirms the pedophiles' views that they're in the right. Hence why it's necessary to ban such relationships by default and make everyone aware that this type of relationship is not acceptable just because you think that you're in the 1% of cases where nobody ends up feeling hurt years down the line. This goes for both pedophilia and incest.

When it came to my friend and her cousin, they were neither

Cousin relationships are not considered incest in majority of cultures around the world, so they should not be used an examples to make statements about incest in general.