[ SECRET POST #5121 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5121 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 20 secrets from Secret Submission Post #732.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. https://i.imgur.com/Pmo4Zhe.jpg

[mishey22]

You can just go for quietly smug?

Your fandom friend is silly. ab beta is supposed to help you get better, otherwise what is the point? (Yes, I know, finding typos)

[(Anonymous)]

If she doesn't want to put the work in and doesn't care about quality, well, that's a decision that a lot of hobbyists make. But I would be smug too.

[(Anonymous)]

Presumably, she thinks her writing is better.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe. But let's not pretend like there aren't writers out there who (consciously or subconsciously) avoid constructive criticism even if their writing could use improvement.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure. But equally, are we going to take OP's assessment of their own beta-ing skills and their friend's writing at absolute face value?

[(Anonymous)]

This is true. I've been writing and beta-reading for years, and there is kind of an art to the diplomacy of beta notes, like:

"I suggest x here instead of y. You seem to use the same word a bit too frequently and it gets repetitive."

"I'm a little confused about this passage; who is unzipping Joe's pants and when you talk about Edgar moving his leg, is it his leg or Joe's?"

"The ending seems kind of weak. The buildup is so wonderful and so I think the final scene deserves more closure for Joe and Edgar or leave us wanting more, but it just kind of peters out. Suggest a or b."

My notes are really well-received and writing them in this way has immensely improved the way I communicate to junior employees (and touchy senior ones) at work.

[(Anonymous)]

You're probably right OP. I was accepted into a BNF circle once because I left a good review on a story and the author in question messaged me to ask if I would beta her next story. I accepted, was added to their discord group where everyone was very welcoming. When that author sent me her story though there were several glaring errors. Funnily enough, when I gave her the concrit she professed to want, she haughtily told me no, it was fine just as it was, and I got booted out of the group just like that. XD

Some people think they want that concrit but they really don't.

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting. If we take OP at their word, then everything they told the friend was helpful, and now the friend either has a big head, or they can't handle true concrit.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible that OP who nitpicked to the point of unbearable, or only believed the writing was good when the friend followed the beta advice. No one else can say if the writing actually suffered at all.

Without specific examples, it's hard to tell.

sa

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I'm aware I omitted an it's. Or maybe I added an extra who. Whatever, I'm not the author.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Right? Maybe every single secret is an elaborate lie by the OP. That's a perfectly reasonable assumption.

[(Anonymous)]

It's hardly an elaborate lie. Come on. The idea that people who are involved in a situation don't necessarily give a reliable and objective account of it is hardly some conspiracy theory. It's a pretty basic and familiar and well-attested reality. It doesn't involve malice, just normal human fallibility.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, I'm saying either is possible. It could be some mix of the two as well.

[(Anonymous)]

No chill was had by you today. Nor reading comprehension, it would seem.

[(Anonymous)]

HAH. Exactly what I was thinking.

Oh, now we're asking secret makers to, what? Cite their sources? OP wasn't asking for us to play judge. They don't need evidence. This isn't a court.

Sooounds like we just have a bunch of salty fanfic authors in the comments, if you ask me.

[(Anonymous)]

man it's such a harmless secret and still you lot want really hard to be the clever ones who ~see things for what they are~ or some shit. undermining people's perception is such a worthwhile endeavour and taking people's words for anything is for gullible idiots

[(Anonymous)]

But if we just take OP's words and start maligning their friend (whom we don't know), that's not harmless?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not "wanting really hard to be the clever one." I'm just looking for examples. Because with the way the secret is written, I'm NOT able to take OP's words at face value.

[(Anonymous)]

For some reason, this was my take, too. I'm not saying that OP sounds like a liar but how are they so sure they're that good? I think I'm good, and even I would not confidently ascribe a perceived decline in quality to be a direct result of not using my service.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is, she'll probably not know until its way too late that her writing quality has dipped. Fandom actively discourages people from offering negative feedback. Only squees allowed. So she's probably never going to get feedback that says "Man this isn't quite as good."

If anyone is wondering, that's one of the reasons that cozy safe-space nature of creative fandom is damaging. It can let writers fall into shitty habits and stay there. Its why fandom can't be the only way a writer learns the skill, if they want to become a professional.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

You are 100% right, but no one in fandom ever wants to hear this.

[(Anonymous)]

Is fandom really supposed to be an incubator for aspiring professionals? Aren't most of us just here to have fun? I never intend to quit my day job, I just want to fuck around online afterhours. Maybe the coziness of fandom is a feature, not a bug?

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who's been writing fic for several decades in fandom I have noticed for a long time how ridiculously thin-skinned most fic-writers are. Yes it's a hobby so English-paper dissertation length comments pointing out the flaws aren't the done thing and I'd never suggest they should be, but pointing out a spelling mistake or two are not personal attacks.

And yet a startling amount of fic-writers seems to consider that so.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. I've given what I consider to be really mild constructive criticism* sandwiched between sincere praise and still had an author blow up like I'd personally attacked her. Many writers have no idea just how hair trigger sensitive they are about concrit, even when they've asked for it.


* For example, since so many anons are eager to believe in awful beta readers without iron clad proof - "I love how you included [detail] and used [more detail] to tie together the plot! There's a minor issue in paragraph 4 where you mentioned that [Character A] is present, but in the previous paragraph, you said [Character A] was [a location miles and miles away]. The conclusion of the scene is fantastic, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in the next chapter!"