[ SECRET POST #5777 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5777 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



__________________________________________________



02.



__________________________________________________



03.



__________________________________________________



04.



__________________________________________________



05.



__________________________________________________



06.



__________________________________________________



07.



__________________________________________________



08.



__________________________________________________



09.



__________________________________________________



10.



__________________________________________________



11.














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 23 secrets from Secret Submission Post #827.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Bryke issued an official statement within days after the finale to confirm that Korra and Asami were bisexual. Whether you regard that as Word Of God and ignorable is up to you I suppose, but that is 100% what the creators intended and wrote into the story. And they found it important enough to explicitly say "they're bisexual" instead of a more vague "they're together"

As far as "taking away from someone" by headcanoning, sure, a headcanon is a headcanon and within your own head does no harm, but when bisexuals face bi erasure CONSTANTLY in their every day life, they deserve to be able to look at even just a silly fictional character and say "she's bi just like me" and not be slapped back with biphobic arguments about someone's sexuality being defined by their current partner's gender over and over and over.

Signed, a lesbian who wants more lesbian characters as much as the next lesbian but supports bisexuals because they get shit too

[(Anonymous)]

The problem with the original argument was that people very much insisting that *based solely on her depiction in the show* Korra could *only* be interpreted as bisexual. And that's not correct.

If you want to talk about Word of God and creator intent, that's a different thing.

[(Anonymous)]

That's a very you problem to be having. Someone's headcanon is their own business and other people are allowed to publicly disagree when that headcanon is presented publicly. Sure, based on her depiction in the show, she COULD be a lesbian, but likewise nothing in her depiction says she's not bisexual either, so it's your headcanon versus someone else's, and the argument ceases to be about queerness at all.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree with you. I think that, based on the evidence presented in the show itself, Korra could be seen as either lesbian or bisexual. If someone thinks she's bisexual based on what was presented in the show, or based on stuff external to the show, that's obviously fine! Great. Fantastic. Wonderful.

The thing that I disagree with is the idea that, based solely on what was depicted in the show itself, Korra could *only* be bisexual. Some people express the view that because Korra at one point in the show is depicted as interested in a man, she can't possibly be a lesbian. And that's what I think is wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

That's great, but then you have to expect to come up against the creator's explicitly stated intent--which at the time was rare and against network wishes (hell, it still is). Add to that the nature of bi erasure--which is not to say that lesbian erasure isn't also a thing, but these are the words DIRECTLY used by the people who wrote the story--and yes, your headcanon is going to get pushback, regardless which scenes made it into the show.

Like, yes you're welcome to your opinion and reading, but with that it's on YOU to understand the reaction against that reading, and the feelings that drive it, and not repeat over and over that it's homophobic to call out biphobia. I promise that people who want to keep Korra and Asami bisexual are not doing it for the benefit of men, nor are they hating on lesbians (again, source, am lesbian)

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree with you, except when it comes to what other fans can and cannot do with a fictional character.

Like, yes you're welcome to your opinion and reading, but with that it's on YOU to understand the reaction against that reading, and the feelings that drive it, and not repeat over and over that it's homophobic to call out biphobia. I promise that people who want to keep Korra and Asami bisexual are not doing it for the benefit of men, nor are they hating on lesbians (again, source, am lesbian)

I understand all these things, including why they feel that way. They are, however, trying to control how other fans do fandom, and that is where I have an issue with them.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't think it's gatekeeping when someone pushes back on something that actively hurts them. Is it not that fun to be argued against in your fandom? Sure. But it's not homophobic and not the same as not being a Real Fan. If someone steps on your feet, you can say it hurts.

[(Anonymous)]

True. But there is a difference between saying something hurts you, and decreeing that everyone must do fandom your way, or else.

[(Anonymous)]

Again, the thing that I really object to is people saying that Korra can *only* be bisexual based *solely* on the presentation in the show. If you are talking about word of God and intent, or you are saying that people can consider Korra either bisexual or lesbian, that's not really what I have a problem with. But when people say that Korra displayed romantic interest in a guy at one point and therefore cannot possibly be a lesbian, then I do absolutely think that's wrong and I have a problem with it.

[(Anonymous)]

Cool, that's not what happened in the old thread. People were arguing oved the fact that Korra was, canonically, bisexual, which yes could go either way, not whether her past relationship defined it. She would still be canonically bisexual if Mako hadn't existed.

Again, it's pointless to argue about HEADCANON and I wholeheartedly agree with you there. But that's another argument that has nothing to do with sexuality, which is what keeps bring thrown around as the core issue and is the reason there is and was so much heat.

[(Anonymous)]

+infinity

[(Anonymous)]

Cool, that's not what happened in the old thread.

It very much is what happened in the old thread. I went and looked it up. Here's the secret thread:

https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/2547574.html?thread=1079153014#cmt1079153014

The whole conversation started as saying that headcanoning Korra as a lesbian was bi erasure. This post, which was very early on in the discussion, is very explicit about saying that Korra cannot possibly be a lesbian because she has expressed interest in men at one point:

https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/2547574.html?thread=1079172470#cmt1079172470

Here's two more explicitly saying that the Mako stuff means she has to be bi:

https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/2547574.html?thread=1079171702#cmt1079171702
https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/2547574.html?thread=1079172214#cmt1079172214

So, the thread was very much people saying that she could not possibly be a lesbian because of the Mako stuff. That's absolutely what happened in the thread. The word-of-god creator intent stuff only entered the discussion *after* people had already been talking about how the character as depicted was definitely bi and could not possibly be a lesbian. The starting point of the whole discussion was her portrayal on the show.

[(Anonymous)]

+billions

[(Anonymous)]

+100

I think we're running up against the fandom thing of fictional people mattering more than real ones again.

[(Anonymous)]

Right, but in this case, bisexual people matter too.

[(Anonymous)]

They matter, but not so much that they get to control what other people do with fictional characters.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not controlling to be told "hey, maybe it's not cool to disrespect one underrepresented group for another", goodness. Real people's feelings were being hurt either way. You think bisexual people like being told they're not REALLY bisexual because they're dating someone?

[(Anonymous)]

1. They were the ones who started that argument with their policing of someone else's secret and acting like they had The One Truth about the show.

2. As the anon above said, their argument was that Korra could only be interpreted as bi from the show itself, which is both untrue and erases the lived experiences of many, many gay people. So someone immediately scampering in to insist that Korra could only be interpreted as bi felt like a slap in the face in that sense.

3. Not everyone considers Word of God to be canon.

4. Most of the time, when the "but they're bi!" argument gets deployed, it's in defense of het ships. Given that fandom itself feels like it's becoming more and more hostile to slash fans in general even in supposedly slash-friendly spaces, there's some sensitivity on that issue.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT I agree that as depicted in the show, Korrasami could be lesbians or bisexual. However, why doesn't saying they're lesbians count as erasing the experiences of real life bisexuals? The knee-jerk reaction to that claim almost certainly came from experiences of bi erasure--ie, "she's with a woman NOW so she has to be a lesbian." One queer experience does not overpower the other, and both can be hurt.

It's also in this case borderline biphobic to claim this instance is in defense of het ships--it's very clearly not. Nobody in that thread or this one is arguing for Makorra; they are arguing for the bisexual representation of two women in a relationship, and that being in that relationship with each othet does not erase their sexuality, which is something that many many many bisexuals face, so there needs to be sensitivity in return, for other queer women.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was in defense of het in this instance, just that that's how the argument is usually deployed, thus other people might have a knee-jerk response to it. So, no, not biphobic, just tired of this bullshit.

I think there's also a situation where some bi fans are conflating another fan doing something they don't in fandom like with societal oppression in general. I see this a lot these days, where people assume that anything they don't like is oppressing them personally, when it isn't. They also assume that they own the character and how that character can be portrayed by other fans, which they don't. In the process, they are acting like their experience should and does supersede everyone else's.

Also, to be blunt, the whole argument about creator intent, etc. reminds me a LOT of the arguments that I saw deployed against the existence of slash back in the 90s and 00s, when all characters were canonically straight so writing them otherwise was disrespectful to the characters and the creators and the actors etc. The exact thing being argued about is different but the basic substance is the same.

The person who sees Korra as a lesbian who figures it out later in her life is not taking anything away from the people who see her as bi. They could share the fictional toys, and let other people play the way they want to, but somehow, that just can't be. Just like the het shippers in my old fandoms just couldn't let the slash shippers be. Courtesy and sensitivity go both ways.

I also notice that you tap-danced around my real beef with this argument, which is one group of fans trying to control what other fans can do in fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't address your "real beef" because I don't disagree with it at all. I just think this is a Both Ways situation where two very real and valid experiences are clashing, and I have no interest in arguing that straight fans have never been gatekeeping assholes towards queer fans and queer interpretations.

My argument is very specifically in defense of bisexual representation, which you agree can be very personal. Fandom is personal. People are going to react when they feel hurt. Telling them they're being mean and crazy won't make them stop, because their feelings come from real places even if they're driven by fiction. It's an unfortunate cycle. I don't think we're disagreeing, just describing perspectives.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

I agree that as depicted in the show, Korrasami could be lesbians or bisexual. However, why doesn't saying they're lesbians count as erasing the experiences of real life bisexuals? The knee-jerk reaction to that claim almost certainly came from experiences of bi erasure--ie, "she's with a woman NOW so she has to be a lesbian."

Just to be clear, the original argument did not start over people saying that Korra had to be a lesbian and could not be a bisexual. The argument started because someone called her a lesbian, and then people responded saying that she couldn't be a lesbian and had to be a bisexual. People were very explicitly rejecting the view that as depicted in the show, Korra could be a lesbian. The idea that people were saying that Korra had to be a lesbian and could not possibly be bisexual is not really what happened in the original thread.

[(Anonymous)]

This!

[(Anonymous)]

It did happen though.

[(Anonymous)]

DA
No, it did not. No one ever actually said that. You just interpreted it that way.