[ SECRET POST #5873 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5873 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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04.
[Demons Roots]


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05. [WARNING for discussion of antisemitism]




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06. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia (possibly, just to be safe)]




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07. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]























Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #840.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. [WARNING for discussion of antisemitism]
https://i.imgur.com/tSaJUei.png

[feotakahari]

People really, really like Cheery.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't this secret a repeat?

[(Anonymous)]

*Sorry! Misfire!*

This is one of those "feels like a question being asked in bad faith" secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

The answer is, because they're not written about or treated in the same way at all.

Re: This is one of those "feels like a question being asked in bad faith" secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

JKR's goblins are given little to no depth or screentime. Pterry's dwarves have central, recurring characters in the main cast who get explored, and in fact there is at least one book that hinges on dwarven theology and their view of the world. I'm not going to say it's perfect or that stereotypes are absolutely not there, but the presentation and treatment is very different.

Re: This is one of those "feels like a question being asked in bad faith" secrets.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, and it has been discussed how they're different in significant detail

[(Anonymous)]

The problem with JKR's goblins isn't just that they're money-obsessed. Their physical description also aligns with some of the worst Jewish caricatures, such as the hook noses.

[(Anonymous)]

Also they're not just money obsessed but also treacherous and conniving, right?

[(Anonymous)]

And not just "money-obsessed" but "control the entire banking system".

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad I'm a Jewish person that doesn't find anti-Semitism in every damn book I read, especially fiction.

[(Anonymous)]

bait spotted

[(Anonymous)]

Reposting my original response here with the addition that this secret still feels like wankbait. But if it's not or anyone wants a sincere answer...

Because by the time Discworld really dug in to social commentary rather than just aiming for the sword and sorcery parody of the earlier books, I'm pretty sure Pratchett was actively using dwarves as Jewish or at least "persecuted diasporic religious and ethnic minority immigrant" expys to make clear that just like in real life, bigots are assholes, and immigrating to a new place as an ethnic and religious minority is complicated, and assimilation vs isolationism is complicated, etc.

Rowling basically made a race of antisemitic caricatures and dialed up the bigot knob until it broke. She was never interested in social commentary beyond "hook nosed goblins hoard gold and work in banks."

I'm not Jewish so if someone who is or at least knows more than me (not difficult) wants to weigh in or correct me, please do.

[(Anonymous)]

Reposting my comment from the first time around…

Are you sure you’ve read both sets of books?

Potterverse Goblins: preoccupied with wealth and banking, portrayed as generally sinister with at least a few specifically evil individuals and no specifically good or noble individuals.

Discworld Dwarves: preoccupied with mining and forging things (especially out of precious metals or stones), portrayed as a) one flawed-but-understandable side of a both-sides conflict with a varied range of individual characterizations (including many highly sympathetic ones) and b) an immigrant community coming to terms with their traditional culture mixing with a diverse urban melting pot

There’s some overlap on the mythologies they draw from, but they go in very different directions with that inspiration. It’s not hard to see why these very different executions would result in very different reactions.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't this secret a repeat?

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t think so. But it was posted to the “secrets you don’t want to make yourself” thread. So you may have seen it before, just not as an actual pictorial secret.

[(Anonymous)]

JKR didn't create goblins.

[(Anonymous)]

Who said she did? Perhaps you're not familiar with folklore in which goblins feature, but they're not necessarily hook-nosed, greedy, money-obsessed bankers. That's JKR's creation.

[(Anonymous)]

Aw, bait like this is only well done when OP sticks around to stir things up. This just feels like a stupid stance quickly rebutted by several sensible perspectives.

[(Anonymous)]

Because HP fandom hates JK Rowling?

[(Anonymous)]

Even if you don't catch the antisemitic tropes JKR uses (and it's actually great that a lot of people haven't encountered them enough to ping these days) JKR portrays them as a group of beings who are socially and legally oppressed and this is good and just (unlike other groups where it's not.) So it's still fucked up.

Pratchett portrays them as a group of beings who are socially and legally oppressed and this is bad and needs fixed, but also complicated.

[(Anonymous)]

There are many references in the books to Goblin uprisings and the wizarding world isn't exactly known for treating magical creatures well. Maybe if they weren't KIDS books AIMED at KIDS there could have been more on the political side of things but you could do a perfect class aimed at 11yrs old where you discuss these issues. Introduce the topic of slavery using House Elves, oppression using Goblins...because you know...KIDS BOOKs.

[(Anonymous)]

Because 'Potter Woman BAD!' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, hun.

[arcanetrivia]

Because Pratchett subverts the stereotypes at just about every turn?