[ SECRET POST #6445 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6445 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 13 secrets from Secret Submission Post #921.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. https://i.imgur.com/oWoEYEK.png

[(Anonymous)]

Speaking as an aroace with no interest in relationships or having sex: From the experiences of ace people I know who are in relationships, it sounds extremely accurate to real life.

It doesn't sound like a fun thing to read about throughout the majority of a fic, though. Oftentimes real life is boring to read about.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, as an ace person, all my romantic relationships with non-ace partners have had at least some measure of them negotiating with me for sex. So it's hardly an unrealistic situation. In fact, it's probably a very realistic and relatable situation and certainly one that any ace person that's dated a non-ace person has gone through.

Is it a situation I want to read about though? Not really, because characters having "relationship negotiation conversations" bore the shit out of me across the board. I feel the same about characters sitting around negotiating kinks before getting into a sexual relationship, which is a thing I sure hope kinksters in real life do, but I don't find interesting in fic.

But, that's a personal preference and should be recognized as such. Not like those conversations are somehow "missing the point." Others clearly enjoy seeing those kinds of conversations happen in their fiction, and that's ok.

[(Anonymous)]

Is it a situation I want to read about though? Not really, because characters having "relationship negotiation conversations" bore the shit out of me across the board. I feel the same about characters sitting around negotiating kinks before getting into a sexual relationship, which is a thing I sure hope kinksters in real life do, but I don't find interesting in fic.

Man, that's the thing, right? Yes, in real life, all of these things are good and necessary. But in a story? It's like writing out that a character put on clothes after getting out of bed, making sure to describe how they slipped on their shirt one sleeve at a time, and shimmied into their underwear, and pulled their socks one-by-one over their feet, and... You can, and should, skip over things, and trust your reader to infer that those things happened.

Of course, the idea with things like "sex/kink/relationship/birth control negotiation" is that it's "responsible" to include those things in fic. We should normalize them, make them "sexy." All right, sure, let's do that in discussion. But in the context of fiction, aiming for "responsible" transforms a story into a sermon or an after-school special.

[(Anonymous)]

Seems like we agree on that much.

OP seems to think that writing out the negotiating somehow misses the point of writing about ace characters though, which is different from "I don't personally prefer realistic, detailed negotiations in my fiction."

It's like saying having a sub character negotiate about what kind of sub they are, is missing the point of writing about a sub character. Which is just... wrong? Even if you don't personally prefer to read that. I don't prefer to read that, but writing a sub character that way still has a point.

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t know if I’d wanna read about it, but I’m sure that’s a discussion that happens in real life too.

[(Anonymous)]

As a married ace, I would not read that. It sounds very boring.

[(Anonymous)]

tbh I wish there was more sex-repulsed ace rep because I am one and it's deeply uncomfortable that most ace rep is negotiating about sex when, yknow, some of us don't have sex at all and that's fine too.

[(Anonymous)]

As a fellow sex repulsed ace person, I'm happy for ace rep of all kinds. But yeah, I very rarely feel represented, personally.

I will say that I felt startlingly, almost viscerally represented by the part in BoJack Horseman where Todd is attempting to cope with the sexual interest that his friend has for him, and is just deeply, deeply uncomfortable and sad and lonely and has no real way of expressing it that feels valid to him at the time. But definitely most ace rep I see is of the non-sex-repulsed variety, which I can't really relate to myself. (I'm also aro, and I don't think I've ever found any sex-repulsed aroace rep before. But maybe one day I will.)

[(Anonymous)]

Driveby rec: The Murderbot Diaries.

[(Anonymous)]

Also, someone doesn't have to be repulsed by sex to not want to do it. I'm not repulsed by folding laundry, I just find it incredibly boring and don't like doing it, and I feel the same way about sex.

[(Anonymous)]

Not missing the point so much as focusing exclusively on one end of the ace spectrum, I’d say. There are plenty of ace folks who might not seek out sex on their own but will engage in it (to some extent) with a non-ace partner, i.e. not interested but not necessarily against it. And that’s fine and still very ace of them! But there are also lots of ace folks who are not interested by way of being sex-repulsed, and the sort of story that you’re encountering is definitely not representative of their ace experience.

Strangely enough, most of the ace fic I’ve seen (not a huge amount either) is very much the opposite of what you’ve found. Sex-repulsed aces, usually having to navigate a relationship where sex is not an option with a partner who they expect will want it.

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of the ace people I know in real life are very obsessed with sex, and talk more about having it than the sexual people I know. I confess I don't quite understand.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

A demisexual demiromantic anon here.

Some people on the asexual spectrum like being romantically or sexually pursued. They define being ace as never or seldom wanting to pursue any potential partner. They would rather be chased than chaste. If they can date a chaser type that they find interesting, a relationship could be formed.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Also, wanting to be chased sexually doesn't preclude anyone from having a large libido, or a very sincere desire to enjoy the process of creating a child or children.

[(Anonymous)]

It's because being asexual and saying one peep about not liking sex gets a whole bunch of people up your ass about how aces think they're better than everyone else for not having sex and think everyone who has sex at all is a slut and we're a bunch of slut-shamers. Hence the reaction of a lot of asexuals eager to dispel that myth by overcompensating about how that's not true, we LOOOOOOVE sex just like you!

[(Anonymous)]

Where in the world is that happening? The closest I've seen to that is people in LGBT spaces getting annoyed because a supposedly ace* person shows up and starts loudly declaring that displays of affection make them uncomfortable, so in order to accommodate their asexuality, everyone needs to stop.

*I say "supposedly," because I think these are actually cases of homophobes getting off on mucking up LGBT spaces, not of bona fide ace people showing up.

In any case, instead of lying and saying, "no no, I actually like and want this thing that I don't like and want," isn't the solution to just not talk about sex? Most people don't, in day-to-day life. And if does happen to come up, and someone's a dick about it, then they can get fucked.

[(Anonymous)]

Also I suspect you know some ace people who never talk about sex at all, due to it not being relevant to their lives, and therefore you haven't actually noticed that they're ace.

[(Anonymous)]

Those people most likely aren't actually asexual. There's a big trend right now where people like to say they're asexual but they just LOOOOOOOOVE sex and can't live without it. Their argument is that it's about "sexual attraction" and they're not "sexually attracted" to anyone so they count as asexual. But that's like a man who sleeps with a ton of women claiming to be gay...but he's not "sexually attracted" to those women even though he LOVES having sex with them, so he's still gay. It's fucking ridiculous and offensive.

[(Anonymous)]

So. This is bait, but it has a real answer. I know you, anon, are an aphobe who doesn't really care, but I also know there are some people for whom this is genuinely confusing and I understand why it would be, so this explanation is for them.

There are certainly many gay people who can have sex with the opposite gender and enjoy it, even love it, as an activity. The fact that they're not attracted to the person doesn't negate that. But of course since they're able to feel attraction to some people, they're going to seek out those people to have sex with because it's an even better experience to have sex with someone you are attracted to. Most of those gay people will not be open about getting some level of enjoyment out of sex with the opposite gender, because that's an opening for homophobes to say "See, you're not really gay, you just need to look harder" and gatekeepers to say "See, you're not really gay, get out of our spaces." You know, kinda like you do with aces who like sex! See how that works?

Asexuals cannot feel attracted to anyone, so the choice is either have sex with someone you're not attracted to or have no sex at all. For those not sex repulsed, who enjoy the activity, sex without attraction is the best you can get. They love it because they're not able to experience anything more powerful. It's like loving cheap fast food burgers because you'll never be able to afford gourmet burgers. And people pointing out that that's the only reason you love cheap ones is likely to cause defensiveness and overzealous statements of loving the shit out of cheap burgers.

[(Anonymous)]

As an ace fic writer who often writes about characters I see as being ace-spec, and sometimes write smut about them... eh. I can see why some people want stories where characters are openly ace and don't have sex! But sometimes I WANT the negotiation because to me it's comforting for the character in question to be able to verbalize 'I am okay with X sexual activity some of the time but I don't feel sexual attraction the way you do, if I don't always want sex it's not a rejection of you' and have their partner be cool about it!

I also like writing characters who maybe DON'T have the language to call themselves asexual or demisexual or so on and so forth, who either have had sexual experiences that they found underwhelming or upsetting even if they chose to have them, or who have been made to feel bad about NOT having had sexual experiences by their current age, finding a partner who might not know what that experience is like, but who is supportive about it! I like writing characters who are maybe discovering that they're demi as they feel sexual attraction for the first time and now this experience makes them realize that they aren't allosexual BECAUSE they thought everyone talked about sex/horniness as a joke but no one really FELT it, and now that they are feeling it for the first time they know what people are talking about but also they know that this feeling isn't their own norm! I like ace characters who enjoy sex not because they feel any drive for it, but because it allows them a way of connecting to a partner, or because an orgasm is still a pretty nice thing to have.

I like that there's a lot of variety, and I think it is realistic, you know... I know fellow aces with a wide variety of opinions on sex, from repulsion to genuine enjoyment.

[starfleetbrat]

Asexual is a bit of an umbrella term.

There are many people who identify as Asexual who have a sex drive and want to have sex, they just do not feel sexual attraction to other people.

Some only develop attraction to another person once an emotional connection is formed.

Others want a romantic relationship with someone but do not want the sex that often goes along with it.

Those are just a few examples of some of the different forms of asexuality.

So yeah, an ace person in a fanfic may want to have sex with a non-ace character, and there might be a conversation about that. I'm not sure it would be an interesting conversation for a fanfic though.

[(Anonymous)]

"Asexual is a bit of an umbrella term."

As it's used now, yes. But it shouldn't be. Asexual people can have sex for various reasons (wanting to please their partner, wanting to get pregnant, etc.) but anyone who actually seeks it out because THEY want it, who say they love it and couldn't live without it, who say they wouldn't be able to be in a relationship without sex...those people are NOT asexual, no matter what they claim. People say it's about sexual attraction, but what purpose does that definition serve when sexual attraction is this nebulous thing that no one seems able to define and when it has zero effect on someone's life and the type of relationships they have, other than being able to use a term?

Someone should be able to say they're asexual without getting questions like "are you the type of asexual who likes sex? how often do you want to do it?" If a guy says "I'm gay", he doesn't get questions like "are you the type of gay guy who has sex with women?" Gay has a single, narrow definition, and everyone knows what it means. When it comes to asexual, there's a double standard, and it's frustrating.

[(Anonymous)]

1. A lot of people write ace headcanons because they're young and nervous about the idea of getting in relationships and having sex, and that's a safe-feeling way to work all that out

2. A lot of people literally don't know how to write a story that isn't a romance that culminates in sex so they just default to that when writing ace characters

3. There are some ace people who have that as part of their experience and want it reflected in fic.

4. Non-ace people who want to write an ace character but ship them default to that because it's what they imagine (or have experienced) that's what a relationship with an ace person would be like for them.

Unfortunately those all combined mean there's some characters where that's like 90% of the fic and speaking as an aroace with zero interest in that plot it's the worst

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you, OP. Having asexual characters in sexual relationships DOES miss the point. Anyone who wants to read about characters having sex can read any of the other 99.9% of fic. People who don't want to read about characters having sex should be able to read about asexual characters, without those stories having to have sex, too.