[ SECRET POST #6564 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6564 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 17 secrets from Secret Submission Post #938.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/NC6gwcj.jpeg

[(Anonymous)]

You made me remember that infamous "opinion" about why Argentina shouldn't have won the World Cup: Because it was full of white people.
In Argentina no one cares about your ethnicity (see Maradona) as long as you play good! That's the secret! The fact that people cannot see us as POC unless we have olive or dark skin is quite frustrating.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

And that reminds me of a Salvadoran woman in my corner of fandom who shared an opinion that went against the grain. A bunch of people reacted by talking about how El Salvador is mostly white, so her viewpoint could be dismissed.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT: I just read that Pedro Pascal, who is Chilean, wasn't fit for General Acacius because "his face wasn't Latin enough". Do you know where the "Latin" word comes from?

[(Anonymous)]

The fact that people cannot see us as POC unless we have olive or dark skin is quite frustrating.

Legitimate question, why do you want them to? Race is a social construct*, and essentially if other people see you as white, you're white. Why would you want to be seen as a POC when you're obviously not perceived as one?

I know some people will think I'm trolling, but I honestly cannot understand this line of thinking.

Thinking about my own history, one side of my family left Europe after WW2. Half came to the US and half went to Argentina. Those of us in the US are considered white, we have European heritage and light skin, and it's never occurred to me that we'd be considered anything else.

I've never specifically asked my cousins from Argentina if they consider themselves white because it's never come up, but if they were in the US, they'd be considered white because we are literally from the same family tree/genetics. If the US side of the family moved to Argentina should we suddenly be considered not white? I don't see how a country's borders magically change someone's race.

*This might be considered inflammatory, but I can't think of another way to put it. I know a woman with light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes...everyone I know considered her white, until people found out that her ancestors came from a primarily Spanish-speaking country, and now a large percentage of the group refer to her as a POC. How does finding out the language of her ancestors suddenly change her race? It literally makes zero sense.

(I'm sorry if I just sound like a massive idiot, but I honestly do not understand.)

[philstar22]

What part of the Star Wars fandom are you hanging out in, OP. Most of the fandom that I've seen is the opposite, getting offended by even a hint of anything "woke" and hating the new stuff just for existing.

[(Anonymous)]

That is just a lie.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

My corner revolved mostly around 'Rogue One,' and overlapped with the part of fandom that agreed with the essay, "Why The Last Jedi isn't Just Bad: It's Toxic" (if you never came across it, here's an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230328051027/http://scavengersholocron.com:80/category/home/why-the-last-jedi-isnt-just-bad-its-toxic/). The thesis of the essay is stated as follows:

The problem is that while The Last Jedi is being branded as the most feminist Star Wars film to date, its “feminism” seems like a cheap marketing ploy to appeal to a wiser audience and downplays some of the key problems within the film itself: it’s built on a foundation of sexism, misogyny, and racism. In other words, if you’re anything other than a white male, this film isn’t made for you.

I share this quote largely to give you an idea of how different the perspective in this part of fandom is from the slice that you've seen. I've seen what you mention, as well, but those are spaces that I left almost immediately.

[(Anonymous)]

I have seen both sides of this in Star Wars fandom, there is a strong social justice fandom and also a strong anti-woke fandom. Just like most big, long-running SF franchises. See also: Star Trek, Doctor Who.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, light-skinned Latinos have long been Schrodinger's POC in fandom. If you think the character is problematic and Not To Be Liked, they're white. If the character is popular, or their fans want them to be more popular, they're a POC and if you don't like them you're racist. Star Wars fandom did the same thing with Poe.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

I do remember some of that with Poe! When it came to 'The Last Jedi' in particular, people couldn't seem to figure out whether to view him as a sexist white guy, or as the victim of a white woman's racism.

[(Anonymous)]

Identity politics in fandom is a bottomless pit of smarminess and hypocrisy.

It's not much better IRL. I worked with a highly educated, ridiculously wealthy zapatista, and she hated everyone. She especially hated her Mexican-born colleagues. And the things she said to me about black people were shocking considering her entire career was based on teaching CRT.

Unfortunately, identity politics tends to devolve into oppression one-upmanship.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Too many people who've based significant aspects of their personality on being sinned-against are just ... socially iredeemable. It's like, for them, the entire point of CRT or whatever is that other people are not allowed to need consideration, or anything that will ever conflict with what they (as a maximally virtuous oppressed person) want. It's baldfaced narcissism masquerading as political engagement. So, naturally, everything other human beings do disappoints them, and they spend their life alienated and angry.

My mother has a fridge magnet that says "The Majority Of Us Are Part Of A Minority Group" and I think of that sometimes and marvel at how many people have been suckered into defining their existence by having been put at a disadvantage.

[(Anonymous)]

You're never gonna win this one either way, disengage

Seriously. You'll only make yourself mad trying to follow what people like this think

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Indeed. That's why I've left.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand what they are doing more than they do, they're trying to use a cheat code for social power.

[(Anonymous)]

I just finished Woke Racism, by John McWhorter, one of the few black public intellectuals who's taken time from his career as a professor (of linguistics) to outline exactly what he thinks is defective and harmful about the ideology that wants to appropriate for itself the word "anti-racism," but champions incoherence like this: https://imgur.com/a/wC67w58

It's not you, anon. They're complete fanatics, and I empathize entirely with your being fucking done.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm kind of sleep deprived and getting over being sick, so sorry for not getting it, but what exactly is that image trying to portray? Which side of the graphic does this book claim is the "right" view? Which people are you calling fanatics?

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, some things on that list are stupid, others are good. The book you're talking about sounds like stealth right-wing babble tbqh.

[meadowphoenix]

john mcwhorter is a hack who'd get along with clarence thomas. just because he learned about getting rich by pandering to reactionaries before it was cool doesn't mean he's being honest, sincere, or critically analytical, intellectually or otherwise.

[(Anonymous)]

If Diego Luna is brown and white, then he's bi-racial.
I've never seen his father so I don't know if he's white too.

[(Anonymous)]

Alejandro Luna Ledesma. He's as white as you can imagine.

[meadowphoenix]

what's "fun" about these discussion on race is that they mostly fail to think about the art they profess to be fans of at all, it's all social jockeying.

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't he literally part of an marginalized minority in the show. like...literally? like it's a major part of both his initial apathy and backstory? if you want to have a discussion on how marginalization is constructed when it is deliberately both distanced (by being in space and of a difference race or species entirely) and relative (by mirroring real-world cultural practices), i don't think that's bad, but from what you're saying it's mostly "i don't like him anymore, it would send me for a loop if i didn't like a rl poc so he's white now"

[(Anonymous)]

OP

"i don't like him anymore, it would send me for a loop if i didn't like a rl poc so he's white now"

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what's going on for some people. For others, however, it's mostly a complete misunderstanding of how people behave in authoritarian regimes. They object to the apathy you mention, framing it as an example of his privilege, and as evidence that he's been written as white (even though you're absolutely correct: the show presents him as what may be the last surviving member of a non-white indigenous people). Their position is that a true marginalized person would know that he's oppressed, and would therefore be engaged in resistance from the outset. This is part of what makes 'Rogue One' Cassian more palatable, as in that film, we're given the impression that he's been fighting since he was 6 years old (whether they should have completely changed his backstory between the film and the show is an entirely different discussion).

In real life, of course, marginalization and oppression can induce apathy, particularly in an authoritarian context. There's a sense that it's too big, too powerful, that the regime's surveillance and control are too complete; that any resistance is, well, futile. I once heard the feeling described as like being an egg in front of a tank. If you come to believe that anything you do is just going to get you (and possibly your friends and family) crushed, without making a dent in the power you've stood against, then yes, your point of view is going to develop into something akin to apathy. Fandom's view is removed from this, far more romanticized - which is a shame, because it caused them to miss entirely what the show was trying to portray.

[(Anonymous)]

*lights up cigarette*

Yeah, when fandoms get crazy over race stuff like this, I start to wonder what fandom is for anymore.