[ SECRET POST #1046 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

THIS goes into effect starting with Submissions Post 151, as secrets were posted before the poll went up last week.

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 353 secrets from Secret Submission Post #150.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2- not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [
1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

Troll is doing misandry wrong. And they wonder why there aren't more men in online fandom.

[milo1047.livejournal.com]

Well, speaking as a man in online fandom, I think it's pretty offensive to assume that I want to rape somebody. :/ Seriously. It's like saying all black people steal or perhaps that all Latinos are lazy (something else I have personal experience with ETA: as a Latino person. >_>; Just to clarify. It is the intertubes after all).

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

I'm coming from the exact same place as you, my friend. (Also a guy in online fandom.) And I really agree with all you've just said here, though I think my first comment was a little unclear. I think I unintentionally implied that there's a right way to do misandry.

Ha, I mean, speaking as a gay man in online fandom, I find the insinuation that I might rape a woman not only offensive but a little puzzling. (Although rape is about power more than sexual gratification etc etc.)

[birkentree.livejournal.com]

Speaking as another gay man in online fandom (yey, I have legitimacy!) it isn't about you. When someone mentions "men" in general, they're not referring to you. When someone references men as rapists, they're making a general statement. Yes, it is sloppy. More men commit rape than women do, so it's not inaccurate. The finger isn't being pointed at you.

When you encounter a stranger on a street, in a bar, on the train etc etc you have no idea about them. From the perspective of a woman in a society with high levels of rape occuring to women it's reasonable to be cautious of an unknown value. When a woman see's me, she doesn't know I'm not a rapist. Nor does she know if I'm a victim of rape myself, or what my sexuality is. She'd be smart to act cautiously around a potential threat.

When I find myself in a 'straight' or mainstream bar (that is, hetero-favouring and no visibly queer presence) surrounded by drunk people, I'm cautious. I'm aware there's a potential for violence occuring for various reasons, and my queerness is a potential trigger for some of these people. When I encounter someone in this environment my immediate, knee-jerk reaction is to ask myself "Does this person wish to cause me harm?". The majority of the time, the answer is no. Still, that immediate filter is healthy. This is not to equate my experience with that of women, I have privileges they do not.

In this case the OP is overstating, not by very much though. You're understating though, and making the discussion about whether or not you're a rapist. While I hope you're not, and if you were I would hope you'd seek help, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

[(Anonymous)]

Holy fuck, thank you for a) getting it, b) explaining it in such a non-fail way.

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

I agree with most of what you've said here -- and I have the exact same reaction to nonqueer spaces -- but here's the thing.

The overstatement itself is actually what I'm taking issue with. I think overstatement of that kind eliminates anyone's ability to have a civil discussion. Am I, as a male, going to be offended by a statement like "all men are, by their very nature, potential rapists"? Uh. Yes.

I may agree with the sentiment behind it -- that women are the victims of sexual violence and that men are (most commonly) the perpetrators -- but the statement itself is offensive, hateful, and gets you absolutely nothing except a bunch of very upset people.

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously, there's a certain amount of suspicion which it is appropriate to lay on any stranger - indeed, any person. You shouldn't trust anyone completely without a great deal of experience with them, and it's wise to be cautious.

Obviously, it's equally wise to be more cautious around men, to keep in mind the possibility of sexual assault, and to take reasonable precautions against that.

But that in no way equates to anything near "NEVER TRUST ANY MAN. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE. CONSTANT VIGILANCE." There's about a mile of difference between those positions. There's a huge difference between caution and, frankly, paranoia. And that's what worries me.

[(Anonymous)]

it isn't about you. When someone mentions "men" in general, they're not referring to you.

Lol discrimination and making assumptions about whole groups of people. It's not about you, it's about the suffering of the people making discriminatory statements!

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe some women are happy having a place where they are in the majority?

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I want to be in fandom and I'm a guy. Uh. Sorry?

[(Anonymous)]

That's fine. But not all of us wonder why there aren't more men in online fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I for one am pretty damn happy there aren't many.

[(Anonymous)]

There are millions of men in online fandom. The fact that some corners of fandom are majority-female has nothing to do with misandry.

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

Didn't mean to connect the two, but I see how it sounds like that -- sorry for being unclear.

[(Anonymous)]

Er, yeah. Fandom is so full of misandry that I... never noticed it at all.

-Another Fandom Male

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I notice it quite a bit.

-A Fandom Female

[(Anonymous)]

Always ready with a pithy comment, aren't we?

[7thisgod.livejournal.com]

Men are a majority in Internet fandom. Just not in LiveJournal.

[(Anonymous)]

for a given definition of fandom, certainly. if you want to talk about 'fandom' in the sense of 'being a fan of something and talking about it' then yes men are certainly the majority. however there is a specific Fandom culture which FandomSecrets participates in, the fandom culture built largely as a community around interacting with shows by creating fan fiction and other fanworks referencing shows, especially centering around romantic relationships. and that fandom is tremendously dominated by women. which is not a bad thing, it's tremendously interesting, but i think it's a little nonspecific to talk about 'fandom' in a broad abstract sense when really there's this specific fandom culture which we're all participating in right now that is very different and distinct.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh no, won't someone think about the men?

[(Anonymous)]

oh come on

this is the internet, we can talk about men. talking about men in no way excludes discussion about women (as we see from every other thread in reply to this comment). it's incredibly stupid to actively try and quash discussion of men, there's no reason not to talk about it. obviously men have it much better than women, and it's important to talk about women's issues, etc. etc. etc. and that is happening. the two are not mutually exclusive.

oh sure all these wealthy well-fed westerners have it so bad... why can't we talk about the plight of the third world? do you see my point?

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck off, and if the rest of your men friends come into discussions of rape with cries of "but what about the men!", take those friends with you and gtfo.

[eugenetapdance.livejournal.com]

"Discussion of rape" =/= hateful generalization about the motives and desires of an entire gender

[(Anonymous)]

seriously

seriously

i think eugenetapdance's comment was poorly phrased

but when there's a comment saying, essentially, "All men are evil and never ever ever ever to be trusted" as a dude I am going to want to comment on that. Not what about the plight of the men. Women get raped frequently, it's a terrible and enormously depressing thing, and men are disproportionately to blame for it. That doesn't mean it's cool to write off literally every man ever, and I don't think it's diminishing or delegitimizing seriously discussion of the problem of rape to say that.

another anon

[(Anonymous)]

it's cool to write off literally every man ever

this doesn't happen except in extremely rare cases. saying you know every man might be a rapist doesn't mean writing it off -- what's being said is not "every man is a rapist."

this is why people react badly when people go the "men are so hated and mistrusted!" route. or characterize all women who are aware of violence and regulate their interactions with strangers accordingly as angry man-hating radicals. they're all very common stramen.