[ SECRET POST #1174 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1174 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

April 1st Submissions Post is open!

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 185 secrets from Secret Submission Post #168.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

im going to take a stab and say you werent there for the hair!fail (all four parts), f!s outrage, the OMG!ONTD_ST HATES BLACK PPL, the OMG!ST_KINKMEM HATES BLACK PPL!, teaoil being banned, the phantom mod(s) appearing out of no where, the fucking quizzes, the comparison of star trek fandom s/u butthurt to dr. who martha/ten butthurt (yes, similar but way to generalize about EVERYBODY AND FURTHER POLARIZE) and the mass exodus to uhura_spock for people of color only.

if you see nothing wrong with the comm its because you srsly choose not to or you agree. not judging, but you are part of the problem i have with the comm.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[r0ck3tsci3ntist.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was there. Didn't freak me out. Seen much more intense IRL.

People need to be able to talk. Now if there have been people being shut down without a chance to express their issues, then yeah, I missed that.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

But what if people don't want to have a politicized fandom? What if they just want the squee?

My problem with the comm was mainly that it adamantly insisted on fusing political ideologies (which is a sensitive topic and people aren't ever going to fully agree on everything) with the ship love.

You say that oh, people don't need to take the quiz to post or view the comm, it's just there on the front page. But that's precisely it--it's there on the front page because it's intended to make a statement. Except to people like the mods the statement reads "we are serious about preventing racefail", while to a lot of other people it reads more like "we are self-righteous jerks who can't separate politics from simple entertainment." There is a time and a place for politics and activism, but to a lot of people, I don't think that's what fandom is for. And the S/U mods seem to utterly unable to comprehend that--or not care about it.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[r0ck3tsci3ntist.livejournal.com]

Ok, I might wrong but this statement makes me think that you are concerned about how the comm is perceived because of those links on the page. I think I understand what your feelings are - though, like I said, I'm not sure.

It does seem, if the long thread of anon comments are anything to go by, that a lot of other people feel the same way. I just find it puzzling because those links don't bother me so much. BUT, I don't write fic, so maybe there's the disconnect. I AM in fact very, very interested in what people from all walks and races in fandom have to say, think and feel because of activities that I am involved in IRL. Personally, I get a lot from them.

But if it's harshing everyone out then I suppose those links should be done away with? We shouldn't even have to look at them sitting there not asking us to click them?

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

I appreciate your level-headedness and openness about this topic.

With that said, this is what I want to get across, fundamentally:

Some things might not bother you but does bother other people. (Which, as you said yourself, you've seen in this thread.)

You don't have to agree with their reasons, you don't even have to understand it, but you need to accept the fact that bad blood exists. (Which you have done, which is more than I can say for some people.)

As a comm, you need to decide how to respond to that fact. You can either say, "okay, no more talking about things which make a lot of us uncomfortable". Or you can say, "tough". Both are, in my opinion, valid responses in the logical sense, and both entail logical consequences. What you see in this thread is the logical consequence of the 2nd type of response.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[r0ck3tsci3ntist.livejournal.com]

Sure. But I wonder if people would react the same way if it was, say, a canon female/female pairing and a number of people wanted to discuss lesbian issues in the comm.

This might be OT but what I seem to be hearing, more than the race issue, is that some people seem to think that they are being told HOW to INTERPRET Uhura. They seem to feel that they are being told that they are not capable of interpreting her because of her race. I can understand frustration with that. But I can't speak to whether or not that is valid since I don't follow every single fic on that comm. But what I do feel is the bashing of of certain Mods seems extreme. They are only human and in most cases I think they have behaved quite well. At least, I've seen a hell of a lot worse. LoL Try dealing with DC public schools!

But yeah, it's fandom. And it's a hard place to try to say something you feel is important. Alot of times you wonder if you should even try.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

*sigh*

Your posts are coming off (to this anon) as saying "awww but it's not so bad! it could be a lot tougher! Look at my experiences with DC schools!"

As such, I can't help but feel you are in fact saying "you shouldn't get upset", which flies in the face of good communication.

Repeating "I don't think it's so bad, I've seen worse" is not going to make people any less angry. I am not you. I do not deal with the D.C public schools, nor do I wish to (although I do teach in a NYC public school). You are okay with the ways things are in the S/U comm (politics wise at least), while I've always found it repugnant. There is no magical happy middle ground, and we are not going to make each other See the Light.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

Seriously. You're suggesting, like so many of the worst-behaved people in that comm, that any dissatisfaction or unhappiness with it is due to inexperience with, or ignorance of, race issues or racial discussion.

No. That is not the case. Theirs is not normal or civilized discourse, period. Quite frankly, if you really had the extensive experience with race/sociology discussion that you claim to have, you'd be able to recognize that, or at least recognize the possibility.

(Also I'm not going to play "let's one-up each other with our COOL STORIES BRO." Which is frustrating because I TOTALLY COULD. But I won't.)

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[r0ck3tsci3ntist.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm sure I am. All these people just come across to me as protesting WAY too much about the race issue with the comm. I can't help but see something else there. But whatever.

I mean, seriously, is that all it is? "Stop talking about race?" Are you sure it isn't "Don't tell me what to think about Uhura." Or "Don't jump on my/my friend's fic?" 'Cause that's what I'm seeing in these comments. I'm seeing Anons who have had their or their friend's fic criticized. I'm not saying I think that's cool but I don't think it should be conflated with honest discussions about race issues.

So yeah, my initial reaction is to say "M'thinks the lady(ies) doth protest too much."

But you are right, we won't convince each other of anything. It's been a good discussion though and food for thought, so thanks.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

"We shouldn't even have to look at them sitting there not asking us to click them?"

Different Anon but with similar POV.

Check the Martha/Ten and S/U post again. The ~phantom mod~ kept suggesting that people be mindful of the rules of race engagement and froze replies to comments where people where disagreeing with the poster. As I saw it, the OP was wrong for generalizing everyone who objected to the pairing but when people tried to point that out, they were met with a little bit of anger and a lot of eye rolling.

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[vardoeger.livejournal.com]

As I saw it, the OP was wrong for generalizing everyone who objected to the pairing but when people tried to point that out, they were met with a little bit of anger and a lot of eye rolling.

Agreed. Generalisations on both sides only serve to polarise the fandom further but I was hesitant to leave a comment to that effect because I was wary of the response it would invoke. Some brave souls did and as expected, they where shut down because the discussion was getting 'off topic.'

Re: YES. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

[(Anonymous)]

cleojones is alway good for that, she'll shut down any topic she doesn't approve of but then again she always wants to have these ~discussions~ to open up the subject of race (see UHURA THE BLACK BRUTE) but they are only for if you agree! and its funny that a lot of these women are SOOOOOO obessed with race and love them some white men. it was in another comm but nearly all of them are in interracial relationships.

Talk about a non-sequitur...

[vardoeger.livejournal.com]

IR relationships are immaterial to how they prefer this character portrayed.

And I don't like the fact that you some how imply that makes them less than black or less qualified to speak on race issues.

[(Anonymous)]

Teaoil was b&? Details plz

[(Anonymous)]

idek the specifics but cleojones did something stupid (shocking) and teaoil wrote a sneaky fanfic in protest and put it in the comm. she also had an icon protesting what cleo did and cleo asked her to change it and, after realizing what the story was REALLY about, asked her to remove the story too. teaoil said, "bite me" to both requests. cleo used the banhammer. outrage ensued. the com was divided and more writers left for uhura_spockfoc.

[(Anonymous)]

Ha, thanks for explaining.

[stars-fell.livejournal.com]

Oh god. I bailed sometime around the advent of the hair!fail and the race bingo card. I found some of the discussion to be intelligent and thought-provoking but on the whole, I REALLY disliked the impression that I would never understand or appreciate Uhura as a character because I'm white.

Just my two cents.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not an uncommon experience. I jumped ship shortly before the hair!fail.

There's a bingo card? HAHA, OH WOW

[stars-fell.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, and it was not amusing.

[(Anonymous)]

...Was it Star Trek fandom specific or just a general bingo card, dare I ask?

/morbid curiosity

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

General bingo card. Written in awesome condescending lolcatese, as a bonus.

It's still linked all over the place, as the RACEFAIL PREVENTION POST.

Ooh, irony, you little scamp. :3

[fairhearing.livejournal.com]

OH WAIT I'm totally kidding, it is a SPOCK/UHURA custom bingo card.



I um

well I guess I'll just let this speak for itself

[(Anonymous)]

Oh dear god.

This

[(Anonymous)]

That's how I felt too and also they would bring up really inane comparisons and even if you just objected to that comparison, then that 'you wouldn't understand cause you're white' attitude would come out. After some time, all the normal people just avoided the discussions and eventually stopped posting there altogether.

imo, there are two distinct sects of that comm. There's the regular LJ users who are on the site for multiple fandoms and just happen to like S/U. Then there's users whose sole purpose on LJ is to be on S/U and promote their agenda. The former dominated the group in the first few months but they all got scared away by the latter.

[(Anonymous)]

Late to the party, but ITA. I got the exact same impression.