[ SECRET POST #1565 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1565 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 297 secrets from Secret Submission Post #224.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - repeat ], [ 1 - ships it ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

04. http://i52.tinypic.com/nmglud.png

[(Anonymous)]

So..it's ok if I bash women if it's in a het pairing's way?

what, you do know that when you ship people are most likely to bash the other character that stands in the way of their pairing right?

[geekbynight.livejournal.com]

I get part of what you're saying but...this happens with het, slash, and femmeslash ships. Male slash isn't the only offender and not everyone writing it does this.

[(Anonymous)]

why say you dislike slash

why not just say you dislike women-bashing

you can enjoy slash without enjoying misogyny, jussayin

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, because that only ever happens in slash fandom. Mhmm.

[(Anonymous)]

See, that's how you know if the fic and/or the author is worth your time. No matter how good the plot is and how IC the characters seem to be, the second the author in question bashes the female characters, I'm clicking the back button.

[(Anonymous)]

I think most people think this way because there's no female involved in a slash ship so it's easy to call someone for being a misogynist. Whereas in femmslash or het, there's a female involved in a ship so it's just...Meh "they're just a crazy shipper"

but I digress

[val-tyr.livejournal.com]

Pro-tip: Misogyny is everywhere.

[cousinmary.livejournal.com]

A well-written slash fic won't do this... now you just have to find the good stuff ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

You... don't frequent a lot of het shipping discussions or fic, do you. Seriously, quit blaming all of fandom's problems on slash. Slash doesn't make characters OOC. Slash doesn't make for misogynistic characterization. Slash doesn't lead to character-bashing and hatred. Bad writing and stupid fans do. Of ANY pairing or character.

[vickyblueeyez.livejournal.com]

stupid question is stupid...

When do you use the word slash to describe something and when do you use yaoi? I've always used yaoi in referring to animated characters and slash to non animated ones.

[eyepatchmcgee.livejournal.com]

Yeah I don't like that either about some slash fans. Ive read stories where they made EVERY SINGLE FEMALE in the SHOW a monster, so that their pairing would be more romantic. But that just makes it seem desperate, its like AH EVERYONE ELSE IS HORRIBLE BUT YOU! And yeah then I hear girl writers talking about how horrible women are, and it all just seems so silly. I just avoid it though and look for better slash times.

[puddinchan.livejournal.com]

...Seriously? You're saying it's just in yaoi fandom?

My favourite character in Tales of Symphonia gets bashed for being a feminine female by people who ship her love interest/the resident Tsundere.

[(Anonymous)]

I sort of get what you're saying, and I sort of don't.

I'm female, but I only ever write slash, and I very rarely ever write female characters, and if I do, they're there to be supportive of the main couple and don't really interact too much. I have a reason for this- I find it very difficult to perceive other women as anything but a threat (it comes from very nearly dying at the hands of a group of girls who tormented you through elementary and middle school, culminating in them beating the hell out of me and leaving me to die in a ditch). I have a serious problem with female characters that remind me of these people, and believe it or not there's a lot of them out there.

I don't usually write female characters, because I usually end up casting them as villains, or threats to the main pairings. Every single time? I end up with people like OP of this secret saying I've internalized misogyny and that I must hate all women or something. Nope. I'm just fucking terrified of them.

Recently, I was writing a fic that involved a female character in a more supportive role, and I thought I did a good job of it. Apparently not, since that ended up bringing more feminist nerdrage towards me, because the character in question wasn't strong enough for them. You just can't win.

My point, OP, is that not everything is misogyny, and even if authors do try to include a female character then they get jumped on for her not being badass enough. It's fanfiction. Let writers write what they want.

[(Anonymous)]

Your secret is hard to read. We're not stupid. We know what misogyny means.

Also: "I don't care if you're a feminist or not." What does that have to do with the secret?

And finally, slashfic does not equal female bashing. Bad slashfic equals female bashing as well as heteronormative stereotypes regarding the guys where one of them has to be the little lady of the pair.

[helenadax.livejournal.com]

I don't read het, but I've been told that Ron gets bashed a lot in Draco/Hermione and Harry/Hermione fics. I mean, I think there's some misogyny in some parts of the fandom, but I'd say that bashing the character who stands in the way of their pairing, male or female, is pretty usual.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get this. I've been a fan of yaoi for years & I haven't come across women who hate women, or men.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Two words: Bleach fandom.

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

Slash and female-bashing are not the same thing, OP
sure, they can coincide, but it happens all the time in het-shipping circles too. Misogyny is kind of ubiquitous, unfortunately

[akai_senshi.livejournal.com]

Though I agree with you, the difference between bashing women in yaoi and het is as follows:

HET: "This girl is NOT how I think women should be, her love rival is! Bring the pitchforks!"

YAOI: "This girl is a GIRL getting in the way of the puuuure boylove! Bring the pitchforks!"

[ryttu3k.livejournal.com]

Please be more open about liking yaoi. We seriously need more fans who actually like female characters.

But yeah, agreeing that female characters get bashed in het ships as well, but in yaoi, it's often female characters getting bashed BECAUSE they're female, not just because they're 'in the way'. Which is honestly just depressing. I've seen the nicest, most likable characters ever getting characterised as horrible cruel evil BITCHES (their word, not mine) just because they're possible female love interests.

Alternatively, get people into F/M/M OT3s. Everyone wins! \o/

Signed, someone who's been accused of hating her favourite female character because she's a 'rival' for her OTP because half of that pairing's following hates her as well, sob ;_;

[(Anonymous)]

You're worried about the girlbashing? Yaoi has far more serious issues and unfortunate implications.

Like when someone says that the bottom in a Yaoi pairing is a basically a girl because they weep and cry, I think that's more misogynostic. I don't think any girl would put up with what the "Uke" goes through in a story.

If a girl was sitting down on the couch minding her on business and the guy comes over and rips her clothes off and forces her legs apart so he can have sex with her because she doesn't know her own feelings and needs to be forced into sex so she can know that she's in love, because apparently only an orgasm, even a forced one means she loves him, and if she doesn't come that means she don't love him... that's rape or dub con at the least. The uke isn't acting like a woman, they're acting like they're under attack and they pretty much are.

[ariseishirou.livejournal.com]

There's a lot of slash out there without the female-bashing, OP. And a lot of het that's pretty fucking misogynist. ...Overall, though, I can't help but see your point. Even as a slash fan myself, I can predict with uncanny accuracy which females are going to wind up bashed in any given fandom.

[masked-creator.livejournal.com]

Why don't you just tell your friends you like slash but dislike and don't agree with the people who make a habit of female character bashing? It's not as if this doesn't go on in the het side of the lawn too.

[fearless-rabbit.livejournal.com]

I feel you, OP. I love slash myself, but I'm sick of running into the girl-bashing in fic, especially in bigger fandoms. Do some of these people just not get that you can like a character, or even just be okay with her, even if you ship her friend/love interest with somebody else?