fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1907 ]

[ SECRET POST #1907 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Disney's Gargoyles]

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08.

[X-Men: First Class]

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09.

[keanu reeves]

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[keanu reeves]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]

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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]

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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]

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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]

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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Oh, now you've intrigued me... why is demisexuality slutshaming?

npyrt

Because apparently, not being interested in sex with people you don't know very well = looking down on others for being interested in have sex with people they don't know very well. I disagree, but that's the argument.

no, plenty of people are not interested in sex with people they don't know very well. it's the defining it as a separate, special orientation that makes it slutshaming and attention-wanting

No, the defining of it as a separate orientation* is to account for the fact that it reflects a sexuality-based decision rather than a mental one. It's not "I'm saving myself, aren't I so great?", it's "meh, not attracted...*gets to know the person*...okay, now I really want to hit that".

*And in any case, it's not actually that separate -- one isn't just demisexual, they're either demi-heterosexual, demi-homosexual, demi-bisexual, or, for those who think of bi and pan as distinct from each other, demi-pansexual. It's like agnosticism -- all it means is that you're not sure (or believe that nobody can be sure) whether there is a God. It's not incompatible with religion: "I believe in the word of the Bible, but I'm not quite sure I believe in God."

so...

"blah blah i'm a special snowflake and i'm more pure than you in my sexual desires"

More like..."blah blah I'm not going to consider anything anyone says if it contradicts my already established opinion"

You should go into politics.

lol

look at your life, look at your choices

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 02:59 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

mika-kun.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 03:08 (UTC) - Expand

You must be pretty full of yourself to think everybody's personal labels for their own self-clarification are reflections of their opinion about what you do and how you conduct yourself.

Butting in here because you mention a very important reason why I don't consider demi-sexuality to be a sexual orientation: "ne isn't just demisexual, they're either demi-heterosexual, demi-homosexual, demi-bisexual, or[...] demi-pansexual."

Being heterosexual is a sexual orientation, being homosexual is a sexual orientation, being bi- or pansexual is an orientation. The demi is, at best, a further qualifier.

A sexual orientation describes who you are attracted to in terms of gender. "Someone I have an emotional connection with" is not a gender.

To be honest, I think demi-sexual describes nothing more than a type. Instead of being attracted to certain physical attributes as well, your type is only people you can emotionally connect with. But that person still has to be a member of the gender(s) you are sexually attracted to - your own gender if you're homosexual, opposite if you are heterosexual, etc.

Let's pretend for a second that I'm 100% straight. I find dark blond hair and green eyes attractive, but, seeing as I'm 100% straight, I only find a guys with dark blond hair and green eyes sexually attractive.

If you're a demi-homosexual, you'll find yourself attracted to someone you can emotionally connect to, no matter what they look like, but that person still has to be the same gender as you.

And that's not even going into how (dare I say it) most people find themselves attracted to people they can emotionally connect with. I've found myself attracted to people who I don't find physically attractive at all after getting to know them better. There is truth in the saying that what truly matters is the inside.

I agree with you, but am curious. I label myself as asexual and see it as a sexual orientation (I am not sexually attracted to anyone), however have seen other people who identify as asexual include the "hetero" or "homo" asexual. Imo, I see the "hetero/etc" as the qualifier in this situation, but would you consider the "asexual" akin to "demisexual" as a qualifier?

I've always seen people use the hetero/homo/ect. asexual description to mean that they are not sexually attracted to either gender, but that they can only be romantically attracted - in a purely emotional sense - to people of a specific gender.

(no subject)

hunterwithcause.livejournal.com - 2012-03-24 04:06 (UTC) - Expand

I see asexuality as a sexual orientation as well, as it means that you aren't sexually attracted to anyone period, no matter which gender.

Have you heard of "romantic orientation"? I think that is what you are describing, where the hetero/homo/etc. refers to the gender you find yourself romantically drawn to. Basically, if you're a bi(-romantic) asexual you are an asexual who finds themselves romantically drawn to both women and men.

I actually wrote my other comment by comparing "demisexual" to x-romantic, but the more I thought about it the more I came to the conclusion that I don't think the two are comparable. Because again, romantic orientation is about the gender/s you are drawn to, just that it's romantically rather than sexually in this case.

Personally, I think about it this way: There is the concept of the orientation, which is made up of both romantic orientation and sexual orientation. Now, disregarding that sexuality is fluid and that we're not all 0s, 1s, 3s, or 6s on the Kinsey Scale* we can safely say that for most sexuals, romantic orientation = sexual orienation. Which is why we don't say hetero-romantic heterosexual, but just heterosexual. It's just redundant.

Asexuals, on the other hand, need** this further qualifier to define themselves. Obviously, you don't need to feel sexually attracted to someone to fall in love with them, but that person still has to be of the gender as specified by your (romantic) orientation.

If "demisexual" were the same as romantic orientation (or a different kind of romantic orientation) we would be able to say that someone is a demisexual asexual - an oxymoron, as a asexual that doesn't feel sexually attracted to anyone, emotional connection non-withstanding.

Which is all just a very long way of saying yes, "x-romantic" is another qualifier, but a fundamentally different one than "demisexual"***. Romantic orientation is the non-sexual equivalent of sexual orientation, and the other half that builds the concept of orientation. Demisexuality is neither a subset or romantic, nor sexual orientation and has, therefore, be treated as a different concept.

(I really hope this makes sense. It's 4am for me and I didn't get much sleep yesterday. And, I should note that this is all just personal opinion. I'm not an expert at this, nor did I study or do extensive research on the topic of sexuality and/or orientation.)

* For the sake of simplicity and intelligibility I'll disregard fluidity of orientation and presuppose that a person is either 100% hetero/homo/bi/pan/a-sexual/romantic.

**In as much as we actually need labels, which is a different discussion.

*** Discounting the debate about whether or not "demisexual" is actually a valid qualifier at all or, as other people said, merely a different kind of slut-shaming. For the sake of simplicity I assumed for this and my previous comment that demisexuality is an actual thing.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 03:29 (UTC) - Expand

This is how I think of it.

I'd also like to point out that I don't think this means that no one should identify as a demisexual, just that it describes an aspect of sexual attraction separate from orientation. I also think that having more words to describe sexual attraction outside of orientation is a good thing. I think people get really hung up on orientation and ignore the other aspects of attraction.

I have to admit, I'm not sure how I feel about demisexual as a label. There is this bitter taste of slut-shaming that comes with the term. Even if the person that uses the term to describe themselves doesn't mean it, it has the potential for slut-shaming in it's very definition. (The whole 'I'm better than those whores who'll sleep with anyone they meet, I need a ~*~real emotional~*~ connection'-thing the anti-demisexual anons have been yelling all over the thread.)

I'm not sure at which point labels become obsolete. Orientation is useful as general indicator, but as you said, there are other aspects of attraction than just orientation. I'm just nor sure if labelling these other aspects is useful.

In the case of demisexual is it really necessary to say that you're demisexual? Does that help anyone? Random example:

When you're at a bar and a guy starts flirting with you*. Stating your orientation helps in this situation, as the guy will then know if he even has a chance, or if his gender already disqualifies him. Saying you're demisexual, on the other hand, doesn't help any. So you can only feel attracted to people you have an emotional connection with. All right, but to which gender are you attracted to? What's your orientation, romantic or sexual? Demisexual tells you next to nothing. It doesn't even discount a one-night stand for sure, as it's possible to form an emotional bond with someone who have only met a few hours ago.

That's why I dislike demisexual as a label. It carries no pertinent information. And then, if you use demisexual as a label, what are people called for whom the opposite is true? People who don't need to have an emotional connection at all to feel sexual attraction? (This is where the potential for slut-shaming gets high again.) And what about people for who both is true?

I guess for me it's acknowledging other aspects of attraction, yay! Labels, nay. Demisexual in particular, not-quite-nay-but-really-not-yay-either. If this makes sense. (I mentioned upthread it's 4am for me. Actually, now it 5am. And I have yet to go to bed. My sleep rhythm is completely fucked since a couple of days, so I apologize if my sleep-deprived ramblings don't make any sense.)

* Assuming hetero-normativity is not the rule and that homo-/transphobia doesn't exist. Basically, a world where stating your orientation up front as no other repercussion than the other person whether or not they're the right gender for you.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-03-24 04:21 (UTC) - Expand

I only find a guys with dark blond hair and green eyes sexually attractive.

You'd be a Sean Bean-sexual? ;)

This, pretty much. Newsflash: not all people who feel sexual attraction are sexually attracted to every single person ever. I'm 100% asexual and even I understand that, for fucks sake. "Demisexuality" is really just a pretentious way of saying "I'm a hetero/homo/bi/whateversexual who doesn't feel attraction to people I don't know."

yup

Thanks. I've heard "slutshaming" mentioned before, but couldn't make the connection.

"i am pure and virginal and special and i don't lust after people until i really know them on a deep emotional level, unlike those other sluts. look at me i'm really special"

You seem to have a lot of feelings about this.

Did someone who claims to be demisexual imply this, or is that what you get from the whole demisexual thing?

have you ever met a self-professed demisexual

they go on and on and on about how oppressed they are by those sexysexuals and ooooohhh they have a deep connection to x actor so they find him sexy

their entire identity is built around the fact that they are special and different because non-demisexuals feel sexual attraction to every person they meet, unlike these special snowflake demisexuals

Actually, I've met 2; both women, 1 gay, 1 straight. The common link between them is their lack of sexual interest in anybody until they met and got to know their partners. I've met them both though my GF, who has a much wider range of friends than I do.

Of course, I'm not saying YOU didn't experience shaming from a demisexual, but I didn't and that was why I asked above for some clarification from the earlier Anon.

Maybe the difference is the ones I've met have RL partners and the ones you've met have been online (right?) and are tin-hatting some actor.

So I can see your frustration.

Think about your first sentence.

You just described two demisexuals as being gay and straight respectively.

This is why people don't think demisexuality is a true orientation. A demisexual can simultaneously be one of the other orientations. Nor does it describe the gender of the people you are primarily attracted to, which all the other orientations do. As a classification system that doesn't work.

Demisexuality describes a condition that must be met before attraction can occur, not orientation. And that's okay! Demisexuality certainly exists, it just describes something other than sexual orientation.

That's not a bad thing! We need more words to describe the different ways people are and are not attracted to each other. It's not like everything relating the sex and sexuality must be an orientation for it be important.

I like you.

You make good points.

So in this way, it would be phrased as "lesbian (orientation) demisexual (expression of the orientation).

The woman who now identifies as a lesbian(demisexual) didn't think she had a sex drive. I wonder, if they break up, will she become asexual, lesbian asexual, bisexual asexual or what.

Are you the SA upthread? Because actually I was responding less to the question of true orientation than to why demisexuals angered that anon so much, and why they felt shamed and judged by them.

Unless part of your point is they feel shamed by something they feel is not real, and that makes them angry.