[ SECRET POST #1925 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1925 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #275.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat (same text, different image) ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

So many people missing the point of this secret. It doesn't matter how important one is to you - the point is: Sally hates it when people push ObjectA on her when she's clearly not interested, yet Sally is always pushing ObjectB on her friends even tho they are clearly not interested.

Result: Sally is a hypocrite.

(frozen comment)

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can read, and I got that point.

But that doesn't change the fact that I think it's a little ridiculous to be equating fandom with faith, which is what you're doing if you treat ObjectA and ObjectB like they're the same. Because, Sally is annoyed that someone is pushing inconsequential fiction at her. And is also Sally pushing something on other people? Yes, but what she's pushing is, you know, what she believes to be the path to salvation and eternal whatever.

And I think that's exceedingly different from, say, Jane pushing a TV series while Sally is pushing a book series and neither care what the other has.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Sally is annoyed that someone is pushing inconsequential fiction at her.

And to the non-believer the Bible is inconsequential fiction.

Fandom and faith can be equated. Everyone is saying that religion is so much more important and more life altering and a lifetime commitment whereas fic or fandom is some little hobby. And while that can be true for a lot of people, it's not for everyone.

I am not religious, but fandom has had what I imagine can be the same life changing effect on me and is just as important to me. There is this one fic that literally saved my life and changed my outlook on the world. No exaggeration, it was life changing. I re-read this story all the time to reaffirm that feeling of hope and life-changing-ness. It helps me in times of darkness and gives me hope for the future.

(frozen comment)

[hollydb]

The bible is inconsequential fiction to me. You might as well try to get me to join the Church of Spongebob. I'll take that just as seriously.

Most atheists -- in my experience -- feel this way. To those who don't believe, there is NO DIFFERENCE between pushing fandom/pushing religion, except the latter is more annoying and intrusive.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

So the point of this secret is that the secret maker can't see a situation from any other point of view but their own? Gotcha

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

The secret is that their friend is a hypocrite and it annoys them.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I explained why it wasn't hypocritical, but whatever, continue being dense

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

You frustrate me with your dismissive attitude to anyone who disagrees with you. I've seen it before, and I just don't get why so many F!S regulars like you so much. You speak well, and explain yourself clearly, but you are incredibly insulting to anyone who disagrees or tries to counter or explain themselves. You're rather bad at doing the very thing you're arguing for: understanding others POV.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I just don't get why so many F!S regulars like you so much

What are you talking about

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah seriously, lol.

I don't like you or your attitude very much, but I kind of admire the way you keep coming back to insist your opinions in the most insulting way possible. So thumbs up?

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I think what's really insulting is how little empathy people who don't personally participate or believe in a religion have for people who do, but whatever.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm always surprised by how little empathy people who do participate in religion have for people who don't.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

Well I don't fall into either category. And if makes you feel any better (not that I give a shit, you sound like real ass), I was forced to go to church as a kid by my grandmother, even though my parents were atheists. I hated it so much I would hide every Sunday and hope nobody would find me so I didn't have to go. I got physically and emotionally bullied by my peers, told my parents were going to Hell, etc. It was awful. So I have no love for evangelical Christianity. I can still understand the fucked up logic of these people and why someone trying to drag another person to church MIGHT BE DIFFERENT from trying to get them into a fandom.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

NOBODY IS SAYING IT IS THE SAME THING TO THE EVANGELICAL FRIEND.
everybody is saying it is he same to the friend who is uninterested.

does that clear stuff up? seriously where do you see people going OH WELL THE CHRISTIAN FRIEND DOESNT CARE! IT IS THE SAME FOR HER AS DAYS OF OUR LIVES or some shit

that doesn't make evangelical christianity any less annoying or pressuring to the person who is the target

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I don't think they lack empathy. You can understand that the girl thinks religion is completely different from fandom. They think they're saving their friend's soul etc. I think the OP gets that their friend doesn't think of it the same way. But from the OP's perspective, her friend is asking her to respect that she's not interested in something, but not respecting the OP's disinterest in being Christian. She obviously understands that her friend doesn't see her religion as anything like fandom. That's why she's wary about talking to her about it.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

It sounds like OP is hoping to convince their friend that their religion is comparable to fandom (from their personally perspective), but if that's the case, they won't succeed, because their friend is never going to see it that way. The friend sounds like they lack empathy as well, and like they don't really care about OP's feelings at all, but that doesn't make it okay to go "LOL your religion is just a fandom". Do you think it would be okay to go around telling people of other faiths that their religion is just a big fandom, just because you don't believe in a religion? Even though I am not a Christian, and in addition, I don't have any love for the particular sect of Christianity where the point seems to be to force it on other people, I don't think it's right to compare any religion to a fandom.

Honestly, OP should just find a different friend

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

And neither can the religious person. If it's the OP, it's the religious one too.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I just find it weird that someone could not see the difference between a fandom and a religion, especially considering how common it is for people to latch onto fandoms, then drop them, then find a new fandom, etc.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that the OP doesn't see the difference - it sounds to me as though that the OP is complaining that the friend is the one that can't see that religion and fandom are the same to the OP (i.e. not important).

If you're going to argue that the OP should see that religion is important to her friend, couldn't you argue back that the friend should see that religion is not important to the OP? Especially considering how common it is that people aren't religious?

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

that religion and fandom are the same to the OP

I mean, again, "something that is very important to a person" =/= religion. I get that fandom can be a central part of somebody's life but it's like, not necessary for the person to include other people in a fandom in order to continue enjoying the fandom and to continue to have that as a central part of their life. But that's exactly how evangelical Christianity works -- it's central to the practice of the religion.

(frozen comment)

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

That's kinda the problem. Even totally ignoring the fandom part of the secret, I don't care how central it is to your religion, you don't get to push it on me.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I agree I AGREE I FUCKING AGREE with that part completely. I'm just saying it's not the same thing as trying to push a fandom on someone.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

And everybody else is saying that you can't just say "It's not the same thing ever!" because for the OP, it is. For the friend, it may not be. It doesn't have to be the same for both parties involved. The OP might think the friend is a hypocrite and the friend might not agree. They can see things different ways.

(frozen comment)

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

Your right its worse.

As several people have mentioned all over this thread pushing a religion on someone is basically saying that you think there is something wrong with the way that person lives their life.

Pushing a fandom has no such implications.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

If it's worse, it logically follows that they can't be comparable to each other. Harassing someone to read Homestuck over and over isn't nearly as wrong as constantly trying to force them to go to church with you. That's the only point I was trying to make, that I don't see it as hypocritical because these two things aren't logically comparable to each other.

"a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess." Even the definition of "hypocrisy" involves some degree of morality and I don't see how morality factors into fandom when in the evangelical adherent's mind, it does factor into dragging someone to church