[ SECRET POST #1925 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1925 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #275.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat (same text, different image) ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Disclaimer: I'm not at all religious but...

I think the general expectation among the Christian faith is that Jesus is a real entity who saves your mortal soul. Can't quite say the same for fandom...

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

So many people missing the point of this secret. It doesn't matter how important one is to you - the point is: Sally hates it when people push ObjectA on her when she's clearly not interested, yet Sally is always pushing ObjectB on her friends even tho they are clearly not interested.

Result: Sally is a hypocrite.

(frozen comment)

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can read, and I got that point.

But that doesn't change the fact that I think it's a little ridiculous to be equating fandom with faith, which is what you're doing if you treat ObjectA and ObjectB like they're the same. Because, Sally is annoyed that someone is pushing inconsequential fiction at her. And is also Sally pushing something on other people? Yes, but what she's pushing is, you know, what she believes to be the path to salvation and eternal whatever.

And I think that's exceedingly different from, say, Jane pushing a TV series while Sally is pushing a book series and neither care what the other has.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Sally is annoyed that someone is pushing inconsequential fiction at her.

And to the non-believer the Bible is inconsequential fiction.

Fandom and faith can be equated. Everyone is saying that religion is so much more important and more life altering and a lifetime commitment whereas fic or fandom is some little hobby. And while that can be true for a lot of people, it's not for everyone.

I am not religious, but fandom has had what I imagine can be the same life changing effect on me and is just as important to me. There is this one fic that literally saved my life and changed my outlook on the world. No exaggeration, it was life changing. I re-read this story all the time to reaffirm that feeling of hope and life-changing-ness. It helps me in times of darkness and gives me hope for the future.

(frozen comment)

[hollydb]

The bible is inconsequential fiction to me. You might as well try to get me to join the Church of Spongebob. I'll take that just as seriously.

Most atheists -- in my experience -- feel this way. To those who don't believe, there is NO DIFFERENCE between pushing fandom/pushing religion, except the latter is more annoying and intrusive.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

So the point of this secret is that the secret maker can't see a situation from any other point of view but their own? Gotcha

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

The secret is that their friend is a hypocrite and it annoys them.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I explained why it wasn't hypocritical, but whatever, continue being dense

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

You frustrate me with your dismissive attitude to anyone who disagrees with you. I've seen it before, and I just don't get why so many F!S regulars like you so much. You speak well, and explain yourself clearly, but you are incredibly insulting to anyone who disagrees or tries to counter or explain themselves. You're rather bad at doing the very thing you're arguing for: understanding others POV.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I just don't get why so many F!S regulars like you so much

What are you talking about

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah seriously, lol.

I don't like you or your attitude very much, but I kind of admire the way you keep coming back to insist your opinions in the most insulting way possible. So thumbs up?

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I think what's really insulting is how little empathy people who don't personally participate or believe in a religion have for people who do, but whatever.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

And neither can the religious person. If it's the OP, it's the religious one too.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I just find it weird that someone could not see the difference between a fandom and a religion, especially considering how common it is for people to latch onto fandoms, then drop them, then find a new fandom, etc.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that the OP doesn't see the difference - it sounds to me as though that the OP is complaining that the friend is the one that can't see that religion and fandom are the same to the OP (i.e. not important).

If you're going to argue that the OP should see that religion is important to her friend, couldn't you argue back that the friend should see that religion is not important to the OP? Especially considering how common it is that people aren't religious?

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

that religion and fandom are the same to the OP

I mean, again, "something that is very important to a person" =/= religion. I get that fandom can be a central part of somebody's life but it's like, not necessary for the person to include other people in a fandom in order to continue enjoying the fandom and to continue to have that as a central part of their life. But that's exactly how evangelical Christianity works -- it's central to the practice of the religion.

(frozen comment)

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

That's kinda the problem. Even totally ignoring the fandom part of the secret, I don't care how central it is to your religion, you don't get to push it on me.

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

LOL exactly
I mean, I get OP's point, but OP needs to understand that in her friend's mind something like going to church or accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior™ is a serious matter, like a life and death situation, whereas the decision to join a fandom or not join one is not. I understand that to people who are not religious, they don't see it that way, but someone who is that religious DOES see it that way. To them, they see it as OMG SAVING YOUR SOUL so urging you to go to church is like urging you to go to the ER because you're having a heart attack; it's literally that important to them

For the record, because people always assume this shit about me when I get into these conversations -- I'M NOT CHRISTIAN. NOT EVANGELICAL. NOT RELIGIOUS (in the sense that I do not belong to an organized religion and don't practice a religion). But I understand the thought process of someone who is religious, in this case probably evangelical (doesn't mean I agree with it)

TL;DR IT'S NOT HYPOCRISY

Honestly OP, just tell your friend that you aren't interested in being Christian and if they keep bothering you about it and don't get the hint after that -- don't be their friend anymore. It's as simple as that.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Why can't it be the religious person who "needs to understand" that in her friend's mind, something like going to church or accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior™ is not a serious matter? Why's the onus on the OP to accept her friend's religion, but not on the friend to accept her friend's lack of it?

(frozen comment)

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

The onus is on both them to accept the other, but Religious Friend can't really do that if they don't know how OP feels.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Someone said above:

http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/871223.html?thread=537632311#t537632311

(frozen comment)

[childings.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that OP needs to accept her friend's religion, where did I say that? In fact, I very clearly said the opposite -- that if this friend can't understand that OP wants no part of Christianity, perhaps they should end the friendship. I'm very OPPOSED to evangelical Christianity and I understand completely how annoying it is for someone to constantly beg you to go to church. I'm just saying, I can see how proselytizing and begging someone to join a fandom are completely different.

(frozen comment)

[haleysings.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this. I'm a Christian, but I hate it when people push our religion onto others because that's NOT a good way to introduce your beliefs to someone. It's irritating enough when someone's trying to get me to ship something or watch a TV show, but if some atheist (or Hindu or Buddhist or Jedi etc) came up to me and started trying to drag me into their religion I'd probably react even more badly. I personally think it's much better to do your best to treat everyone--EVERYONE--around you with love and respect, be open about your faith, and if people are interested (keyword: interested!) in hearing about it, THEN you can talk to them about your religion. Espeeeecially in a culture like ours where most people do know at least some about Jesus and the gospel. I think Jesus himself did that quite a bit. So I completely understand why people would be bothered and offended by someone being pushy, demanding or Bible-bashing, particularly if you make it clear that you're not interested. "Do undo others," after all.

That being said, yeah, for someone that obviously cares about her faith the way OP does, fandom and religion are on way, way, WAY different levels of importance. If someone pointed a gun to my head and said "Spit on this copy of your favorite manga!" I'd probably do it. Fandom isn't worth losing my life over it. But if someone did the same thing with a Bible--well, I'd hope I'd refuse, because yeah, to me my faith is more important than my life. As a kid I was a lot more zealous about this sort of thing, too, so I can understand OP's friend's perspective. It wasn't that I wanted to be cruel, I just genuinely thought of it as a LIFE OR DEATH sort of thing and I was so insistent because I actually cared about people. So...yeah, you can say "it's hypocrisy" but if you REALLY care about something and truly feel that it matters, it make sense that you'd want to tell people about it. This isn't just religion (or fandom), it could be politics, some sort of cause you feel strongly about, etc. Everyone has that sort of thing that they want to trumpet, but I'm sure even the people who get really into them want to be dragged to see a movie they're not interested in.

Honestly OP, just tell your friend that you aren't interested in being Christian and if they keep bothering you about it and don't get the hint after that -- don't be their friend anymore. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, also this. I don't think there's anything wrong with cutting ties with someone when they're being really belligerent and just won't take the hint. Sometimes that stuff just gets...IDK, unhealthy and not worthwhile for either party to deal with anymore.

(As an aside, I think it's important to realize that we're not getting the full story here--we're getting a short summary of one side's opinion on it. OP's friend could be a Bible-toting religious nut who never stops talking about her religion and won't take no for an answer and is just a pain in the ass to be around, or should could just be occasionally mentioning "hey, do you want to go to church with me sometime?" every now and then and OP's overreacting and exaggerating. We really have no idea, so assuming too much one way or the other...well...I don't know if it's really good.)

TL;DR: I agree that it's not hypocrisy but that her friend could be potentially way too pushy and should knock it off because that's not the way to share something you care about. And apologies for yappinig your ear off. ^^;;

(frozen comment)

[haleysings.livejournal.com]

but if some atheist [...] came up to me and started trying to drag me into their religion

Errr...or "drag me into their non-religion/badger me about their opinions on religion" or something. Athiesm isn't really a religion, and I need to proof read things carefully.

(frozen comment)

[hunter-san.livejournal.com]

But for OP the 'value' of them is the same and she's not interested - so friend should back off and stop pressuring her to go to church. It doesn't matter if friend holds her faith or fandom higher, it's OP who is not interested.

OP, try to be firmer about not being interested in Church. Have you outright stated (with no wiggle room) that you don't want to go to church? Try to avoid things like "I'm too busy" as they take it you're kind of interested. A flat "Not interested no" is probably going to be needed several times and hopefully your friend will stop bothering you.

(This is also useful for unwanted advances by someone.)