[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

There are any number of reasons a person might not choose to identify with the feminist label.

For me, I have two major reasons. One, I've had a fair amount of association with SJW-type feminists and would prefer not to be associated with them. Two, I don't believe in everything that the majority of feminists believe. The major difference is that I'm pro-life. And I'm willing to bet that if I *did* claim to be a feminist I'd get a lot of "but you're not a REAL feminist!!1!" because I don't think abortion is okay.

I just believe what I believe. I believe all people are equal and equally deserving of life, liberty, and other basic rights and of being treated with respect and that it's ok to be who you are and like what you like.

inb4 abortion wank...not trying to start that shit guys

[natural_blue_26.livejournal.com]

Very well put and I agree with you on both points :)

[fritzier]

exactly

except i just classify the SJWs as radfems-- while they may be feminists, they are just. extremists. and i'm certain that the rest of the movement did not intend for anyone like that to happen...

[thoreal]

Radfem doesn't mean extremist, dude. Radfem means you believe in the existence of the patriarchy as a system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism

[stainless]

Whoa whoa whoa.

That makes me pretty uncomfortable. I have no problem with people identifying as radical feminists and believing a whole slew of things, but I don't like the idea that people automatically fall under the label. I think people have some really good reasons for not wanting to be associated with the label because of some of the extremists and their bigotry (especially their rampant transmisogyny.)

[yeahscience]

Except... words mean things? The term "radical feminist" is often misused to mean "extreme feminist," but that's not actually what it was coined to mean. It refers to a specific movement within the greater umbrella of feminism itself.

[fritzier]

oh my actual what, really

because i've always seen it used to shun extremist feminists that fall under the "man-hating" category, by people who definitely do believe in the existence of the patriarchy as a system of oppression

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, honestly, if you're anti-choice you should not call yourself a feminist.

So it's good that you don't. Thanks for that.

[diet_poison]

rme at "anti-choice".

I don't call pro-choice people "anti-life". That would be absolutely ridiculous, and it doesn't make sense either. Do you realize how much of a douche you look like when you go out of your way to slap a falsifying label on someone you don't agree with?

Thanks for proving my point. Both of them, really.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't have even mentioned it dawg. While I hate the idea of abortions as well I've gotten into the same argument a few times. People have their heads to far up their asses to think there's more than just black and white.

You're automatically anti-choice, male, Republican and Christian because us guys on the internet don't judge. No sir.

[(Anonymous)]

Lol, the only person implying they're male, Republican or Christian because they're anti-choice is you.

[diet_poison]

I don't think people assume you're male if you say you're pro-life. They might assume you're a republican, though. (I am neither...)

[stainless]

For what it's worth, I totally agree. I'm pro-choice, but I think calling people "anti-choice" is a cheap dig (just like calling people "anti-life" is.) I've never understood what's so horrible about calling people what they want to be called. It's easy enough to say "These people go by an innocuous name, but I think they're very wrong in a very destructive way" and avoid silly name-calling.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that if you're pro-choice you're not 'anti-life.' All that being pro-choice means is that you respect women's bodily autonomy and right to choose whether or not they want to be an incubator for an unborn baby.

If you're 'pro-life' that means you are against women's ability to choose what happens in their body, ie you are anti-choice.

It's really simple. Stop trying to make false equivalencies.

[diet_poison]

So am I anti-choice if I believe you shouldn't be allowed to pick up a gun and shoot someone who didn't provoke you, or drive a car on a sidewalk on a school campus, or bring explosive material onto an airplane? And it's not just human lives that curb choice - it's also not okay to have sex with someone who has been drugged, or set fire to someone else's house, or lock a person up in your closet for a week.

People who are pro-life aren't out to destroy the choices of people. We just recognize that one person's rights end where the other person's rights begin. Society is CHALK FULL of instances where peoples' choices are limited in order to protect the rights of others. No one is purposely trying to figure out how we can eliminate the choices of women even more (trollish glee)!!! We like people to have as many choices in their lives as possible - we just recognize that those choices have limitations in order to protect others' rights to be alive, be free, and ultimately make their own choices one day too.

In the same way, I know that most pro-choice people aren't out to see how many babiez they can kill, and most don't have a flippant attitude about the value of human life. We just disagree on things like whether an unborn person is a living human, whether their right to life is especially important, etc. I know most people in existence would like to eliminate *situations* where women find themselves facing that choice.

So I don't think you are anti-life. And I am not anti-choice. Most of all, your unwillingness to respect the label I choose for my beliefs shows me that you are not able to have a reasonable discussion about it, that you would have a very hard time being objective, and that you're more interested in being rude to people you disagree with than actually accomplishing anything.

[fuchsiascreams]

Okay, but do you understand that it's possible to be pro-life and also pro-choice at the same time?

da

[(Anonymous)]

...wow, there is a name for my position? Like, I'd prefer if there weren't abortions at all, but I recognize that sometimes that's simply the best decision for both the baby-to-be-born and the mother (and by extension, the family and environment they're being born into).

Re: da

[(Anonymous)]

...that's just called being pro-choice. People who are pro-choice don't actually like abortion and they think it would be pretty great if women weren't ever in the position to need one, but they know that sometimes it's just the best choice. You can be pro-choice while also knowing that it would never be the right choice for you personally.

[(Anonymous)]

No, it's not. Pro-lifers are by definition anti-choice.

Unless they're using some different meaning for the word pro-life that doesn't include being against abortion.

[world_eater]

I believe all people are equal and equally deserving of life, liberty, and other basic rights and of being treated with respect and that it's ok to be who you are and like what you like.

Except when you want an abortion. *snort*

[diet_poison]

What part of "I'm not trying to start abortion wank" did you not read?

I mean, do you really want to go there?

[world_eater]

I never accused you of starting wank tho?

[stainless]

I am pro-choice, but I totally understand you. I was pro-life for a long time when I was younger and it used to drive me crazy that people would assume that had to do with men or with religion. Actually it had to do with having a disability and with being born prematurely. The preemie thing made me uncomfortable with the idea that you're a baby if you're out and a fetus if you're in -- I just happened to become a person quickly? It didn't make sense to me. And disability made me really leery of some people's reasons for aborting (and still does.) I ultimately decided that making abortion illegal would hurts more than it would help, but I still feel really strange sometimes when I hear people talk about "lumps of cells" or "on demand and without apology!" and sneering at people who find the whole thing more complicated.

So... I hope this doesn't begin any wank. but let me just say I disagree with you but don't think that means there's something wrong with you or horrible about you. For whatever it's worth. :-)

[diet_poison]

I actually also kind of dropped the "I think abortion should be completely illegal!" tack a while ago...probably because I realized it wouldn't do much good.

But I don't think abortion is okay, except where the mother is in danger blah blah etc. I would rather see a change in our culture where we truly value all human life and seek to preserve and cherish it, than a law eliminating abortion across the board. I want to see an overhaul in our adoption and foster care systems, more assistance to women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy, better sex ed, etc. That kind of thing. But it doesn't feel right to call myself pro-choice because I do value the unborn as humans with the right to life and I don't condone elective abortion in any way.

[stainless]

Makes sense to me. I think a lot of pro-choice people would call you pro-choice, actually; they see "pro-life" as meaning "holding the view that abortion should be illegal." I understand the desire for simplicity there, but I don't think it really does justice to feelings like yours, where it's "well, I don't want to criminalize it but I still feel that it's wrong."