[ SECRET POST #2033 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2033 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Mortal Kombat]


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03.


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04.


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05.
[The Young and the Restless]


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06.


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07.
[Firefly, Joss Whedon; Sherlock BBC, Steven Moffat]


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08. http://i.imgur.com/Je2qV.png
[not really porny but implied underage sexual stuff; photomanip; snape/hermione]


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09.


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10.


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11.


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12.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












13. [SPOILER WARNING for Pokemon Black/White]



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14. [SPOILER WARNING for Kurau: Phantom Memory]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













15. [WARNING for rape]



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16. [WARNING for suicide]



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17. [WARNING for incest]

[Kono Naka ni Hikari, Imouto ga Iru!]


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18. [WARNING for animal death/abuse?]

[Eden Lake]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #290.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

15. [WARNING for rape]
http://i46.tinypic.com/1g3iia.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

i get where you're coming from. but if her fics are awful and problematic, don't tell her that they're good just because you've given up. telling her they're good just reinforces the awful things she's doing.

either tell her bluntly what's wrong with these things, or resign as her advisor. if she doesn't take criticism or suggestions, and you don't actually plan on ... advising her, i don't see the point in you having that position anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

I've tried explaining that some of her views of romance are disturbing but it always ends up with drama ("I'm a bad writer!", "No one likes my fics!" "I should just stop writing!" "Maybe I should leave the fandom...", etc) and as much as I hate her fics, I don't want to discourage her from writing and lose her friendship.

[(Anonymous)]

You did a disservice to yourself by agreeing to be your friend's "advisor in writing," whatever that means, and telling her "great! keep on writing!" while being secretly disgusted and creeped out by her fic (and, I suspect, rapidly losing respect for her) is a disservice to her too. Tell her forthrightly that it's not working for you and bow out--and if you want to, tell her that it's because you know she would never listen to the advice you really want to give. But really, you don't owe her an explanation. Just say you don't think it can work, and leave it at that.

[(Anonymous)]

I wish I could do that, but my friend is so dramatic. If I say no without a good reason, she'll take it personally and will threaten to leave the fandom/stop writing or accuse me of not wanting to be friends with her anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, it'd be pretty shitty of her to drop it without an obligation. I'm not saying she shouldn't do it, but she should tell her friend why - for multiple reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

People ask other people to be an "advisor" in fic writing? That's...really weird. You both sound like really weird people. Idk, maybe you can just stick to correcting her comma usage instead of trying to convince her that her sex fantasies are not okay?

[(Anonymous)]

"beta reading", proofreading, editing, etc. a friend's work is not that uncommon.

[(Anonymous)]

That's actually what she calls it. I usually just beta her fics and give general comments about how it's written. I think the word 'advisor' is weird, too, actually *shrugs*

[(Anonymous)]

This depends on how badly you want to protect your friendship with her, but I would just tell her how creepy and wrong she is being (but more, ah, tactfully, I guess; like, firmly, but politely).

I'm assuming she's still young, no? (Teens, twenties, tops?) In that case, her worldviews are still being shaped. You're still on time to at least try to steer her right.

[(Anonymous)]

I've tried being tactful but she didn't get it. I've even linked her to 'discussion' in ffrants and you know how brutal they are over there and she's terrified. I really don't know how to tell her without making her lose her self-esteem and/or losing our friendship.

She's in her mid-twenties. I hope I'm not too late to point her to the right direction.

[(Anonymous)]

Could you just be honest but tactful and tell her that her handling of the subject matter makes you uncomfortable? If she reacts badly to that it's really her problem, not yours.

[(Anonymous)]

When I was younger I wrote a very problematic fic and had a friend beta-read it for me. She pointed out everything that was problematic about it and it was a turning point in my writing and in my fandom experience as a whole. I became much more socially aware in RL too. Her telling me the truth and not letting me continue writing such terrible things was the best thing she could have ever done for me.

[insanenoodlyguy]

This is what Twilight and 50 shades of grey bring us folks. A few posts ago, there was one about how at least it was bringing people out. Nope. Not worth it if it spawns more of this.

[velvet_mace]

I wish you hadn't agreed on it. It's clear that she has way different kinks and narrative tropes than you do. There's nothing wrong with what she likes -- that sort of fantasy dubcon is very popular and hits a sweet spot in a lot of people. It's not meant to be realistic and advising her to make it realistic will just be like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole -- discouraging to both of you.

Tell her that you have a squick for dubcon and non-con, that you can tollerate it only if it's being presented in a brutal realistic way rather than a light fantasy-romantic or humorous way. And then say that you'd love to help advise her on any projects that she has that don't include dub-con or non-con elements.

This gets you out of reading her squick and at the same time frees her up to find someone who can truly advise her with her favorite narrative tropes.

Also... wow a lot of kink shaming for fantasy rape in this thread. You'd think we hadn't discussed this before. You all don't like 50 shades and Twilight and the bajillion other romance books that fall into this "problematic" category, that's great, but you don't get to decide what other people enjoy in escapism, and clearly lots and lots of women enjoy fantasy dubcon and unrealistic non-con.

[cashay]

You sound kind of desperate to be her friend despite not being comfortable with her as a person. I mean the way it sounds in the secret it's not only her writing but her general complete lack of understanding of personal boundaries and the existence of rape.

So why do you want to be her friend? I guess it's making you unhappy even outside reading her fanfic. If she's such a drama queen why do you want to be friends with her?

Maybe you should consider just not being her friend anymore if you want to be her friend just to call her your friend. Sure, friendships aren't supposed to be abandoned once it gets tough and I don't know any facts aside from her FanFic writing but you just don't sound very comfortable with it.

And frankly it doesn't sound all that healthy either.

[blueonblue]

Is her writing bad, or is it just the content that bothers you? If writing is making her unhappy, maybe it is better if she stops. Giving up on writing fanfics is not the worst thing in the world, and if that's all the friendship is based on, it would probably end when one of you changes fandoms anyway.

[tasogare_n_hime]

Not only are you not doing what she's asked you to do, but you are lying to her leading her to believe you are. I understand wanting to avoid the drama, but that's a shitty thing to do to someone you call a friend, OP. You need to be honest with her.

[(Anonymous)]

You should drop her now while you can. Be honest with her and tell her what you really think about her writing.

I befriended someone who I wasn't really a fan of her writing and such, and it was one of the biggest mistakes of my life. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN.

[stainless]

Hmmm... as someone who knowingly writes creepy stuff and has gotten the reaction "you must not know what real trauma/violence/abuse is if you write this! BAD BAD YOU!" I'm torn.

Sometimes, the issue is not that you as a writer aren't aware, but that you're choosing to write creepy things. I like some things that would probably fall under "rape is love." I don't like them because I think they're realistic, I like them because I'm a perv. I know very well that what they depict is Bad Idea Jeans, but that doesn't make me any less wet.

And sometimes no matter how many times you explain yourself or how many warnings you put on something, people like their personal explanations of why you wrote what you did or what it Really Means Given Rape Culture or what the fuck ever more than anything you have to say about it.

Sometimes, though, a person is straight up clueless. Maybe they don't know what's really unhealthy because they have no experience with it. Maybe they aren't good enough with words or with plot or with nuance to realize that while their intent was obviously something cute, it came off creepy, or that while their intent was creepyhotnoir it came off as cutesy when it should have been titillatingly disturbing.

And that's harder, especially if the person's sensitive. You may not want to continue to beta for this person. Excuses abound in the world; make use of some, if you want. Or just pull a slow fade.

Or you could be more gentle than you want: "Amy, I really think Steve's innocent attitude is adorable in this scene. But do you mean for Adam to come off so pushy here? If you're going for dark attraction, you might try keeping Adam creepy, but give us a few more hints that Steve's resistance is posturing. If you're going for realistic noncon, though, I think Steve needs to be more upset for longer."

[kallanda_lee]

Or, you know, you could just give constructive criticism on the content of her story, too.


But then, it seems weird that the two of you are even friends, because it seems you two are not so compatible.

[ecoerrante]

Honestly, I'd just say be honest. Don't bash her fics, or get into a fight about relationships. Just be polite and say, while you're flattered she wants you to be her 'advisor' [though I'm not quite sure what that means - beta?], you really don't feel comfortable doing it anymore. If she asks why, try to explain without being insulting.

[siofrabunnies]

I'm not going to comment on the content/portrayal issue, but I can offer advice on her drama queening. If she starts misinterpreting you ("I should just give up writing; I'm horrible". Whatever she pulls.), respond with "That's not what I said, this is what I said." Every time. Be a broken record if you have to. Don't let her change the track of the conversation; keep it on the advising.

Look at one of her fics, pick out a specific problem, and say what's wrong with it. "I think you're portrayal of this relationship is really dodgy. If that's what you're going for, that's great, but tell the reader beforehand, because this can be really upset to stumble into. If you don't warn, you're a jerk. If you wanted this to just be cute, you need to change this, because most people don't accept this as cute, but as frightening." Give her the benefit of the doubt, or at least let her think you are.

I'm just guessing here, but it kinda sounds like she'd responding to your disapproval by changing the subject. Gently, but frankly, point out she's changing the subject and steer her back. "We can talk about that once we've finished this bit of the talk," works really well - provided you do talk about it. If she's insecure about her writing, find a way to rebuild her confidence, but don't let her get away with crap. "I think you are a fine writer, but I think you be so much better if you did *this*."

If you're insecure about her writing, which it sounds like you are, and you can't handle it, tell her "I don't mean to hurt you, and this doesn't mean we can't be friends, etc, but I'm not comfortable with this. I need you to respect the fact that this makes me really uncomfortable, and I can't be a good advisor if I'm this uncomfortable." Note that "this" can either mean her naive/cutesy treatment of rape/noncon/abuse, or the way she responds to criticism.

If you want her to be a better writer, something anyone here has said could help. If you want to avoid her fics because they're troubling, tell her you're done, so she can find a new beta and you can stay sane. You're not helping either of you if you keep avoiding the issue.

Best of luck, and I really hope you can stay friends. It sucks to lose a friend to things that should bring you together.

/long rambly comment is long and rambly. Sorry, I kinda get all verbose and directing when I give advice.

[(Anonymous)]

To those saying maybe the friend just likes these tropes even if she knows they're creepy irl, I say that if that's the case, it would be very easy for her to set OP's mind at ease. When OP linked her to discussions about healthy relationships, she could have said something like, "Well, I know, but that's not relevant because fantasy." Whereas OP says she's more concerned that people disagree with her.

If we're going to credit OP's point of view enough to engage with her, then it seems pretty clear that she's tried to discuss the issue with her friend, and has reason to believe her friend doesn't separate fantasy from reality on these points enough for her to be comfortable.

[(Anonymous)]

this is a difficult situation
the only bit of advice i can give you, OP, is to try to give her constructive criticism - tell her exactly WHY her fics are bad using some examples, and how she could change it.

the sandwich method:
+ Positive Comment
- Criticism
+ Positive Comment

Start on a positive note, end on a positive note, and maybe the truth will be easier to swallow.