fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2120 ]

[ SECRET POST #2120 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2120 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #303.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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14. http://i.imgur.com/yLTCp.png

So injustices needing to be remedied should go ignored if the discussions pertaining to them are not ones you can fit yourself personally into?

There are discussions where your voice is not needed. That does not negate your own injustices you suffer. Just that some times listening is more necessary than talking too.

I think OP is saying that they resent all of Europe being looked at as one monolithic culture when they're from an area with different norms/politics/etc that is technically still a part of Europe, not that these discussions have no meaning to them.

That's what I took from it as well.

That's how I read it too.

Uh, who is doing that? Even Americans are aware that Europe is made up of different cultures.

Even on this blog we've countless 'well america is p. big and states are sort of different so it's exactly as varied as europe and I get to treat europe as a cohesive whole' arguments.

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(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 00:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 12:05 (UTC) - Expand

Well, when Americans think or talk about Europe they really usually mean only Western Europe (in the sense of pre-Iron-fall-Europe) and the same is to some extent true about some people who live in many parts of Western Europe (it's been changing in the last two decades, mostly because of EU opening to the East, which sort of brought many countries of the Eastern Europe back to Europeans mental maps of their own continent).

Still quite often you get this feeling that when somebody says Europe and European they really think of parts of it, not the whole.

I do understand it in a way, but sometimes it's a bit dismissive, especially when it is deliberate. I didn't often hear an outright "it doesn't concern you" (like the anon who made this secret), but there's often this implication in the discussions that "my" part of Europe is not "the real" Europe, which I do find annoying.

(But is also sometimes almost subconscious and definitely a result of geopolitics and sheer unfamiliarity with the cultures of these countries)

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 22:56 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-24 18:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-24 19:36 (UTC) - Expand

Not OP, but that's definitely something I have my problems with, and that's how I understand that secret.

Well, different areas of the world have different problems, different demographics, different ideologies, etc. I'm guessing you're Eastern European, probably Balkans or Baltic? A lot of people don't know much about those countries.

I know, OP. I know.

So if you feel that the SJ issues of your culture aren't addressed enough, start some threads about them. Going on to a thread about something else and then being upset that they don't want to change the subject and talk about what you want to talk about just seems like a classic recipe for butthurt.

I think OP is less "butthurt" about people not wanting to talk about what they want to talk about and is actually more upset that the people having these discussions want to paint Europe as a monolith, and then shrug it off/ignore it when they're told otherwise.

That could be it as well. OP's wording was kinda vague.

"They're told the discussion doesn't concern us" seems to me to pretty clearly mean that the discussioners are well aware that the OP is from a different country in Europe than the discussion.

This. Seriously, OP, if you're trying to get into a conversation about SJ issues that, as you put it, don't apply to your country/it's neighbors, then...yeah. You're going to get told that it doesn't concern you when you try saying 'That doesn't really apply to where I'm from'. The reason is because, if it doesn't apply to your country, and that's what the topic is about then it really doesn't concern you. I mean, how would you feel if you were in a conversation about SJ issues that do affect where you're from, and someone came in and did exactly that? You'd probably be somewhat annoyed since there'd really be no reason for them butting in like that.

Now, I'm not arguing that SJ tends to be a little over-focused on the west sometimes, and that a lot of people* tend to treat Europe [and america too] as monolithic culture masses. But...I kind of doubt that's the only thing that's going, from what you said in the secret.

*And no, it's not just Americans who do that

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 08:41 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 09:23 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-23 08:53 (UTC) - Expand

Haha, I fucking love it how horrified SJWs (and Internet liberals in general) are whenever they sometimes take a peek into Eastern European social problems :D (and also how they try to project their own morals and misinformed knowledge onto EE problems, it's golden).

Eh, the whole issue you're talking about doesn't really annoy me anymore. Partly because I accept that everyone is biased on some level, and partly because I realized that I don't really care about social justice discussions in fandom. If people want to treat Europe as a single unit good for them! Although it would be quite unfortunate for them if one day they decided to travel to Russia or Ukraine or whatever and they'd expect to have the same human rights as they had in Western countries (especially if they aren't male/aren't white/aren't hetero).

Americans don't even know these countries exist, so...

I was going to jump on you, having made Russian history and culture studies a cornerstone of my academic work, but then I remembered some of the "discussions" I've had with fellow U.S. Americans about the Russian language and regional politics. :/

Obviously, though, there are millions of U.S. citizens who are either of Eastern European ancestry or have immigrated from Eastern European countries.

If it makes you feel any better some of my Eastern Europan friends didn't know Slovenia exists, despite the fact that our countries aren't far apart.

I think it goes either way: there are ignorant ass Americans because the human race is full of ignorant ass people but there also those of Eastern European descent or who were alive during the Cold War or when the USSR fell apart. I remember even as a kid the jokes about Hungary, so I'd hesitate to say they don't know that exists, people who've read Harry Potter should recognize Bulgaria, and Ukraine is common knowledge, though its location probably isn't.

The thing with the Baltic and Balkan states is that they're generally known for ethnic conflict, underdevelopment, and the same general attitudes the US applies to Russia. They just aren't interesting to Americans.

Yeah, well, what have they ever produced of interest to Americans?

But it's not a "who will be more interesting to Americans" competition, but the problem of "why the hell can't we be included in the conversation about our own continent and what do you mean by >we're not relevant to the topic<?".

I know of one place good for discussions, where "Europe" doesn't automatically mean "Western Europe" - fail_fandomanon.livejournal.com

There has been a lot of discussions about the West Europe vs. East Europe issues, there. You can check it out, OP, if you like. Although it's a panfandom meme and SJ is only one of the subjects discussed there.

*butthurt*

It's funny how everyone talks about Baltic Region, the Balcans, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Slovenia etc.
And no one - really? - NO ONE mentions Belarus which IS a big country in the middle of Europe but isn't one of aforementioned.

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