fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2209 ]

[ SECRET POST #2209 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2208 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 121 secrets from Secret Submission Post #316.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I don't think the events in Doriath entitle Thranduil to hate dwarves. It makes it understandable -- but that was one group of dwarves thousands of years ago. Moving past that and dealing with living dwarves on their own merits might not be easy, but it's part of the responsibility of being a leader.

Dear god yes. How long can you hold a grudge?

To the end of time and back, just ask The Daleks or The Doctor!

LOL. No to be real, it's one of the (apparently many) reasons I dislike elves. They the most judgy, judgy things. Like Gloin said at the Council of Elrond after hearing they let Gollum out to climb trees -- "WTF guys, you treated us like more shit than gollum?" I'm paraphrasing.

Spoilers dude*! But yeah I understand where you are coming from. It makes Legolas and Gimli's friendship even more awesome though?**

*I'm just messing with you, I might not have read The Hobbit yet, but there is not a lot of spoilers left to spoil me with. On second thought, is that from the movie? I watched the movie, I can't remember that...

**I can only talk about the movies, because I read the LoTR books almost exactly 10 years ago, so I can't remember a lot.

Yeah, I can't spoiler you for what they are going to do in the next Hobbit films because I haven't seen that yet. Who knows, maybe Peter Jackson will have the Thranduil wining and dining the dwarves and giving them long relaxing foot rubs. (Wouldn't that annoy the purists!) And in fact, until I watch otherwise, that will be my new headcanon.

I think they glossed over that in the movie version of LOTRs, so it maybe only book canon. It does point out that elves aren't always complete dicks. Apparently they can be merciful when it comes to forwarding the plot. But really, they are remarkably inconsistent for beings that pride themselves on their perfection and wisdom.

Who knows, maybe Peter Jackson will have the Thranduil wining and dining the dwarves and giving them long relaxing foot rubs.

LOL, this is awesome!

~~Anything to have more Thranduil~~

Lee Pace

giving Thorin long relaxing foot rubs

yes this pleases me

Sweet!

I've actually always kinda liked that about Tolkien's Elves, that they have this glaring flaw that prevents them from being all perfect and angelic. Doesnt' stop me from wanting to smack some elven heads sometimes, but still.

Tolkein elves have tons of flaws. But they have awesome PR and they get away with a lot simply because of the fan-boy effect.

Elves are vain, rude, arrogant, quick to appreciate their own efforts, but poor to acknowlege them in others, utterly in love with their own past, but uninterested in any history besides their own. In fact they admit to being bored and uninterested in what's going on with people other than elves, and yet they absolutely expect that others should care about their great doings. They are the ultimate "I've got mine, screw you" types. They walk freely in other peoples countries, but don't allow others to freely walk in theirs. They have enormous powers that they keep for themselves. Peter Jackson actually niced them up a bit by getting rid of their teasing and snobbery actually having them help in Helms Deep. They are Tolkien BNFS.

They are Tolkien BNFS.

OMG THAT IS A WONDERFUL DESCRIPTION.

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(Anonymous) - 2013-01-20 03:54 (UTC) - Expand

Aww, damn you aren't psychic?

I will totally be disappointed if that doesn't happen in the Hobbit movies now.

Yeah probably. I really need to reread The Lord of The rings, it is almost half a life since I read it last, and I only remember how slow I found the book, it might have been because I was too young?

The books are slow in places. Particularly that place. I just got done reading the Counsel of Elrond, and my god does everyone suck at story telling. There is a story there (several in fact), but it's said in the most long-winded, ponderous, and vague way possible. It took me 4 days to read through it to my daughter. By comparison, we've raced through the chapters before and afterwards.

Among the stories is the one where apparently the Elves were taking Gollum out for walkies in the woods and he climbed up a tree and wouldn't come down. They apparently didn't want to climb up and get him because, fuck that, they are elves, so they sat down, feasting and shitting about, and waited for him to get hungry. But before that could happen the Orcs show up. The elves kind of forgot what they were doing and chased the orcs off their land (quite righteously I imagine). With that completed they realized "Oh hey, yeah, we were supposed to be guarding Gollum, weren't we?" They go back, but by then, Gollum was long gone. Oooops.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-20 00:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

greenvelvetcake - 2013-01-20 00:47 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-20 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

Dat approximate quote. <3 You are awesome.

Someone better acquainted with The Hobbit correct me, but does Thranduil even hate Dwarves in the books? My understanding was that he was miffed when they showed up and wouldn't answer any of his questions as to why they were here, and that later he sided with Bard & co - but to me that's more him being a temperamental bastard than some instance of deep ancestral hate.

I believe it mentions something about an old feud between wood-elves and another clan of dwarves which obliquely refers to the Doriath debacle. And he does lock them up for... well, for trespassing and then refusing to explain what they were doing, which isn't exactly an outrageous reaction.

I don't remember- been years since I've read the books- there has always been some back story and grudges in the Hobbit and LOTR, but Thranduil's always prickly.

Yeah, they just show up in his property, crashing the woodland revel, and when he's like, "So, um, why are you here?" they get all "You can't make me talk" on him. So he's like, "Eru, fine! You can stay in the comfy holding cells until you decide to be a little more forthcoming."

I think that Thorin did say "We were lost and starving and were hoping you could help." But apparently that wasn't good enough. They wanted to know all of Thorin's business. Also, didn't they claim they were just passing through on their way to see relatives? Anyway, they thought that the Elf king was going to demand a share of the treasure, so they refused to tell him. He's portrayed as being more greedy than vengeful.

Edited 2013-01-20 04:41 (UTC)

Also, didn't they claim they were just passing through on their way to see relatives?
No. When Thranduil asks him what they were doing in the forest, Thorin says nothing at all. Thranduil's suspicion is pretty justifiable considering who he's sharing a forest with.

Little bit late to the part-eh here, but in the book Thranduil just wants to know why they're all up in his forests business and when they refuse to tell him, he confines them (with as much food and drink as they want) until they decide to be honest. Likely because he doesn't want them derping around the forest, pissing off all the spiders.

At the end of the book, Thranduil, despite having marched all his people down to the mountain is the only one who DOESN'T demand a share of the dwarves treasure. He only backs up Bard the Bowman's claim to a share to help rebuild Laketown (since Bard's the one who actually killed the Dragon, and the Dwarves efforts to get Smaug out destroyed Laketown) In fact Bilbo is so impressed and enamoured with Thranduil by the end of the book that by the time the goblins get there "if he was going to be in a last desperate stand, he preferred on the whole to defend the Elvenking."

I don't know the timeline of what Tolkein came up with when, but he may not have written the Doriath backstory until later so the conflict may not have had an explanation when he originally wrote The Hobbit.

Or he only had a vague outline of it at that point. He was writing the forerunner material to the Silm back in World War 1, when he was in the trenches.

100% agreed.

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