fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2273 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2273 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Here’s one that will work, as opposed to this drivel: Teach women to not put themselves in positions where men have the opportunity to rape them.

How about fuck you? Teach men no to fucking rape, and teach society that rape is NEVER the fault of the victim.

There are always going to be rapists.

And? Your point is?

That we should teach girls to not make themselves come off as wanting it. Everyone knows (crime) is wrong, that doesn't mean there aren't easy targets.

plus, women need to stop fantasizing about rape (90% have rape fantasies?) if they want rape be taken seriously at all.

'Come off as wanting'..... You mean, as independent beings with a sex drive?

Where'd you pull that stat from? Dear gods, this is the stupidest 'argument' i think i've been in in months.

If trolling - we're done now.
If real - we're still done now.

if someone acts like a slut and walks around like drunken whore, no one will take her seriously when claiming to be a rape victim. teaching women self respect is the most important step in getting men to respect them as people (and not rape targets/cum dumpsters)

Yup, trolling.

No.

Fantasizing about a loss of control in a society that teaches women that "good girls" don't desire sex is entirely different than the reality of being violently attacked. What goes on in the privacy of a woman's mind or in the context of a consensually-negotiated kink scene is completely unrelated to sexual activity being forced upon an unwilling person. One does not justify the other, or warrant having the other not "taken seriously."

How about we teach society not to assume that girls "want it" by default? Our culture thinks about rape in a completely different way than it thinks about other crimes. If you get mugged, no one starts interrogating you about what you were wearing to tempt the mugger or accuses you of giving him a gift and then changing your mind. People don't mourn the loss of the promising future of the guy who was convicted of knocking over a convenience store. Those aren't conversations our society has, the way it has them about rape.

http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/a-useful-rape-analogy/

That doesn't mean the onus isn't on men to NOT FUCKING RAPE.

Just like there will always be theives and murders, but the focus should be on the perpetrator you dumb fuck. They're the ones doing wrong

nayrt
While this is true, I feel that it should be pointed out that going to a party with a lot of strange men and getting blackout drunk is to rape as walking down a dark alley in a bad part of town waving fistfuls of expensive jewelery in the air is to being mugged. Yes, it's the mugger's fault that they mugged you, but you did make their "job" easier by your carelessness. Teaching women to have a defensive mindset, to fight back, and to be cautious around men is not a magic potion to end rape forever, but it can help them defend themselves.

IMO, there isn't a problem with teaching tactics to hopefully prevent rape - the problem is putting the entire onus on the (female) victim rather than on the (male) rapist. (And furthermore, assuming all victims are women and women are the only people who need to be "taught" how to protect themselves ignores the existence of male victims and female rapists.)

The idea of it is fine, it's the execution. People who talk about what women should do to protect themselves generally come with the mindset that rapists are rapists and there's nothing anybody can do to change that, and they generally end up telling women these things after she's been raped, like it's all her fault and she should've known better, when even if she did, it's not helping her one damn bit now, and is likely just going to make her feel more guilty and more unwilling to come forward and report it.

Moreover, it creates an (entirely inaccurate) expectation that, if a woman does all the "right" things, they'll be safe -- when the majority of rapes are committed by someone the woman knows and trusts. So not only does putting the onus of preventing rape on the woman make survivors who were attacked feel guilty for their own assault, but it makes rape victims whose rapes don't fit the "stranger in a dark alley" profile uncertain of whether what happened to them was "really" rape at all, and thus they end up feeling guilty as well and are less likely to report their assault.

Yeah, but even if you accept this logic (which I don't), I've known people who were mugged when they were by themselves at night and literally not a single person responded with "BUT THAT MUGGER JUST COULDN'T RESIST MUGGING YOU. HOW WAS HE SUPPOSED TO STOP HIMSELF" because everyone knows that stealing is wrong. We are taught from childhood that stealing is wrong. When you see an unlocked car with the keys still in, you still know that taking it would be stealing. You won't find many people who disagree with this.

If you compare the unlocked car with a passed-out drunk girl at a party, suddenly there's DEBATE about why it's rape, and why it's wrong. That's why this argument is such a straw man.

So rather than try to ensure that no one gets raped, try to ensure that someone else gets raped.

I think you've beautifully summed up my problem with this entire argument.

Ahaha you're bad at this.

That's a completely foolproof solution. Just ask Kelly Dodson (sister of Antoine).

"positions where men have the opportunity to rape them." You mean, women shouldn't go anywhere men might go? I have to spend the rest of my short miserable life in a concrete bunker pointing a loaded gun at a blast door? Because that's what you're suggesting. I have male co-workers. I have male friends. Many of my neighbors are men. Some of my roommates have been men. All my professors this semester are men. Avoiding slightly under half the human race is difficult. All men, scratch that, all people, are potential rapists and potential rape victims. The person ultimately responsible for a rape isn't the victim, whether that's a kid, or an old woman, or a young man, or a hot girl with a come-hither smile wearing a g-string and nothing else. The person responsible for the rape is the rapist, not the victim.

[ SECRET POST #2273 ]

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